something I can't quite wrap my brain around

[alsaqr]

Back in the day i killed numerous deer using calibers like .41 Swiss, .38-40, .32-20 and .44-40. Even killed a couple with my Civil War Spencer.

Do the new bullets make a difference when a questionable hit is made?

IMO: No.

Since 2000 95 percent of my big game animals and hogs have been killed with a .50 muzzleloader. Muzzleloader hunters argue this same stuff. The search for the elusive muzzleloader bullet that will turn a gut shot into a bang flop continues.

Every season for many years i tracked a few wounded elk and 8-12 wounded deer for other hunters. The vast majority of those animals were gut shot. Few hunters will fess up to gut shooting an animal. Heard a lot of stories ending in something like: "i don't understand what happened, i double lunged"...

 

[Bezoar]

THe handgun standard that we cannot overlook or get passed around is

.40 diameter 200 grains 1000fps.

both of these cartridges can do that. However Semi autos arent legal in everyjurisdiction for handgun hunting.

and .40sw with a 165 grain jhp for people is just whistling in the wind

 

[Bezoar]

The rule of thumb does a few things that arent good.

Have a thread on the firingline.

44-40 of a 240 gr jsp at 660 foot pounds from a rifle barrel is better then a 180 grain .357 generating 750 pounds at the muzzle of a 4 inch handgun.

 

[eastbank]

i have shot 200gr jsp,s out of my charles daley sharps and a winchester 53 and 92 at 1600fps with out any trouble and that comes out to 711fpe at 100yds. also i know my 200gr cast hard lead bullets at 1500fps will kill deer if i pick my shots out to 80 yards as i have done it and with the double lung shots they die very quickly and i have not recovered a bullet as they were complete pass thru,s. eastbank.

 

[torqem]

right, 750 ft lbs out of a 4" 357. and no, the 44-40 rifle would not be a better choice, not with the factory load in the carbine, and a controllable choice in the 357. Like 550 ft lbs of 110 gr jhp. You won't be controlling 180 grs in a 4" 357 adequately in rapidfire, if it's over 1100 fps, and if the velocity is that low, the jhp probably won't expand. The entire POINT of hunting with a handgun is to prove yourself, your carry gun and load equal to the task. If it and you are not, then you should be using a rifle.

 

[35 Whelen]

The 38-40 was not introduced to be used as a big game cartridge. I read an article, probably in Handloader, recently about the 38-40 in which the author stated that Winchester had introduced it as a small game cartridge and said so in their literature.

The 38-40 was chambered in Colt's and in fact was chambered ALOT in their Bisley model.

Yes, it is similar in power to the 40 S&W but one difference in regards to hunting is most firearms chambered for the 40 are designed with self defense in mind, not pin-point accuracy.

On the other side of the coin, there's post over on the Cast Boolit site where a fella details an ELK hunt in which he successfully used a 38-40 out of a carbine to take a bull.

35W