Sort Of A Mexican License To Kill Americans
- Thread starter moa
- Start date
- Status
longeyes
member
I wasn't talking about all Mexicans, of course. But I think poverty and ignorance and defeatism breed dislike, envy, and enmity, no less in Mexico than in, say, the Middle East. Ingrained in the Mexican culture is the "damn gringo" attitude--again, with some, not all--based on our collective histories. I think most of what's going on, in terms of the violence, is about economics, but some of the nastiness may emanate from vindictiveness.
No good, ozone. You're trying to create a seperate class of citizen, I guess, what is a National ID card and why should it support the issuance of a SSN?
Anyone currently here illegally needs to be located, apprehended and repatriated. Every country needs to have controlled, lawful immigration in the interests of its security.
Anyone currently here illegally needs to be located, apprehended and repatriated. Every country needs to have controlled, lawful immigration in the interests of its security.
macavada
Member
The original topic of the thread was about a license to kill Americans. I'm not touching immigration.
Mexico's policy of not extraditing criminals to the U.S. that may face the death penalty is nothing new. This has been their policy for as long as I can remember. Many European countries have the same policy. If we promised to not seek the death penalty, and limit our justice to seeking life imprisonment, these other countries would cooperate with extradition requests. I don't have a problem with that. Better some justice rather than no justice. The Mexican's won't prosecute a Mexican national for committing a crime in the U.S. They will cooperate as long as the crime is not a capital punishment case.
Mexico's policy of not extraditing criminals to the U.S. that may face the death penalty is nothing new. This has been their policy for as long as I can remember. Many European countries have the same policy. If we promised to not seek the death penalty, and limit our justice to seeking life imprisonment, these other countries would cooperate with extradition requests. I don't have a problem with that. Better some justice rather than no justice. The Mexican's won't prosecute a Mexican national for committing a crime in the U.S. They will cooperate as long as the crime is not a capital punishment case.
MACAVADA, my understanding is Mexico will not extradict if the possble punishment is life in prison. I think that is something fairly recent.
Of course, with Mexican nationals we have a much larger law enforcement problem than any other foreign nationals. Something like at least 25% of our prison/jail population is illegal aliens and I imagine the bulk of them are Mexican nationals. Our prison and jails currently are holding about 2,000,000 total prisoners. 4,000,000 people are on parole or probation.
Of course, with Mexican nationals we have a much larger law enforcement problem than any other foreign nationals. Something like at least 25% of our prison/jail population is illegal aliens and I imagine the bulk of them are Mexican nationals. Our prison and jails currently are holding about 2,000,000 total prisoners. 4,000,000 people are on parole or probation.
macavada
Member
What is your source for the policy that Mexico won't extradite Mexican nationals to the U.S. that might be facing life terms? I've never heard that one before.
macavada
Member
Nevermind. A quick search reveals results.
http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2005/01/sentencing_sens.html
That's a new one for me. I understand the premise that criminals should have an opportunity to rehabilitate, but the policy for international cooperation is too extreme. I guess if they don't respect their own constitution, what good is their government? But then again, it is one of the most corrupt governments in the world. They sure don't treat their prisoners very well in their Mexican jails. I guess that's how they rehab them.
http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2005/01/sentencing_sens.html
That's a new one for me. I understand the premise that criminals should have an opportunity to rehabilitate, but the policy for international cooperation is too extreme. I guess if they don't respect their own constitution, what good is their government? But then again, it is one of the most corrupt governments in the world. They sure don't treat their prisoners very well in their Mexican jails. I guess that's how they rehab them.
On the European issue - would you allow extraditon of your own citizens if they were to face what you regarded as cruel and unusual punishment - removal of hands, stoning etc? We just happen to regard execution in that manner.
I remember a while back some outcry on a thread about a proposed extradition treaty with the UK that would mean that all that was required was a confirmed identity and then extradition could proceed. If the US wants to extradite UK citizens - it works that way already. Don't seem entirely right, especially in the light of the Lotfi Raissi case, waited 7 months in jail to be extradited to the US under the old rules, was eventually released after a magistrate told him that he had received no evidence whatsoever to link Raissi to terrorism or more specifically, 9/11.
On another note - Rumsfeld appeared to be in ignorance of the 'no capital punishment' clause when announcing the extradition attempt of Abu Hamza.
I remember a while back some outcry on a thread about a proposed extradition treaty with the UK that would mean that all that was required was a confirmed identity and then extradition could proceed. If the US wants to extradite UK citizens - it works that way already. Don't seem entirely right, especially in the light of the Lotfi Raissi case, waited 7 months in jail to be extradited to the US under the old rules, was eventually released after a magistrate told him that he had received no evidence whatsoever to link Raissi to terrorism or more specifically, 9/11.
On another note - Rumsfeld appeared to be in ignorance of the 'no capital punishment' clause when announcing the extradition attempt of Abu Hamza.
macavada
Member
The idea that execution is cruel and unusual punishment is not hyperbole in my opinion. It is valid to think that executing criminals is inhumane.
I happen to be pro-life.
I happen to be pro-life.
There are a whole lot of people who aren't big on execution, some American states amongst them. We've done it, stopped it. Doesn't necessarily make us more 'progressive', it does mean that we aren't too keen on our citizens facing punishments abroad that they wouldn't have faced at home. If caught abroad then we can't do a lot except appeal, if given any power, say to refuse to extradite, then we will use it. And we should.
longeyes
member
I'm sorry but the unction of the Mexican gov't in presenting itself as somehow more advanced, righteous, and humane vis-a-vis the United States is grimly ironic, not to mention absurd. Their moral battleground is to refuse to extradite Mexican nationals who killed, among other, our police officers? Because we might "over-punish?" Talk about self-serving crap.
What this is really about is two things: loyalty to one's own, no matter what; and defying the United States. The rest is empty posturing. If the Mexican gov't wants to be "humane" I can think of a number of issues inside Mexico where they can better apply their deep insights.
What this is really about is two things: loyalty to one's own, no matter what; and defying the United States. The rest is empty posturing. If the Mexican gov't wants to be "humane" I can think of a number of issues inside Mexico where they can better apply their deep insights.
jnojr
Member
One question I have... are these "thousands of killers" living free in Mexico, or are they in Mexican jails? If Armando Garcia is rotting in a Mexican prison, I'm not quite as outraged as I would be if he was living a nice life in a sleepy little village somewhere.
longeyes
member
For those wanting to put a human face on the problem, go here:
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
Selfdfenz
Member
Oh boy here we go again.
No day can pass without the racist paint being applied.
I wish I was a Moderator sometimes.
S-
No day can pass without the racist paint being applied.
I wish I was a Moderator sometimes.
S-
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
(Bleep), Selfdfenz, so do I.
Oleg put me on this forum because it's somewhat difficult to make me lose my cool.
And so, dear friends, calmly and cooly, into the night...
, Art
Oleg put me on this forum because it's somewhat difficult to make me lose my cool.
And so, dear friends, calmly and cooly, into the night...
, Art- Status