Speer 147 grain 23619

[Robert B]

I just watched a you tube video testing this round by TNOutdoors. So much for the 147 grainers not expanding. 17.5 in penetration/.59 in expansion in denim covered wetpack. The Speer catalog also shows excellent numbers through the FBI barriers. Is the Speer 147 grain round the exception to the rule? I have read a lot that the older 147 grainers did not expand well. I know that the HST's expand. I bought this Speer ammo about 4-5 years ago. Did Speer redesign the 23619 or is my ammo the same as todays manufactured ammo? I have always liked the extra penetration of the heavy for caliber rounds. Thanks.

 

[918v]

We knew 147s expanded even before the Gold Dot came to market.

 

[NG VI]

HSTs expand like kings, especially in 147 grain.

Ranger-Ts expand just as well, especially in 147 grain.

Any other 147 that was introduced or redesigned since the late nineties should work beautifully.

The first two I mentioned are top of the class in expansion and reliability, bullet designers have long since learned how to use the greater amount of material the heavier bullets give them to increase expansion and reliability. Other than Hornady's Critical Defense, which is designed to penetrate less than the FBI minimum, and doesn't expand all that much anyway, no manufacturer that I'm aware of has released a new bullet design in 115 grain in the last ten years.

I honestly think they'd put even more emphasis on the 147s if there wasn't still so much 25-year old stigma against them, and so much love of the energy numbers of lighter +P loads.

And for what it's worth, Hornady's duty-oriented counterpart to the Critical Defense is called the Critical Duty, and in 9mm it only comes in 135 grain.

Interesting.

 

[918v]

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler_Articles/winchester_9mm.pdf

This is data from the late 80's/early 90's.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I like the accuracy of the 147's in my guns. Seems all types of 147's do well in my Walther, Beretta, Browning, CZ and S&W's.

 

[918v]

That is due to the 147 being better suited to 9mm's 1-10" standard twist rate than 124s or 115s.

 

[jwash3rd]

147's may not expand out of shorter barrels. I tested Gold Dot, Ranger T and WWB with denim/water jugs and did not get much expansion from My Kel Tec P-11 (3.1") but they performed consistantly from my Springfield XD9 (4"). I would guess that the heavier bullets don't reach the required velocity from a shorter barrel.

 

[LawScholar]

When I get around to getting a 9x19 gun, my carry load will be HST, Gold Dot, Win. Ranger T, Win. PDX, or Hornady TAP, all in 147 grain. I like heavy bullets. They expand fine now, and have smooth, soft recoil.

I definitely want to try some of that Critical Duty, though.

 

[Chuck R.]

147's may not expand out of shorter barrels. I tested Gold Dot, Ranger T and WWB with denim/water jugs and did not get much expansion from My Kel Tec P-11 (3.1") but they performed consistantly from my Springfield XD9 (4"). I would guess that the heavier bullets don't reach the required velocity from a shorter barrel.

I chronographed REM 147 Grain Golden Sabers out of my Walther PPS’s 3.2” barrel and the velocity was 41fps below the advertised 990 for a 4” test barrel. The ammo was also at 34 degrees, surprisingly small velocity loss. With ammo at about body temp I believe the velocity loss will be even less. So I don’t think there should be an issue with expansion at slightly lower velocities.

Also I read a post somewhere that a WIN Rep was advising to use their 147 grain loads in short barrels because they also experienced smaller velocity loss that with +P rounds. Apparently the dwell time for the heavier bullet burns most of the powder.

Chuck