Speer Lawman .357 sig - is this normal or bad?

[southwestheat]

I ordered a case of Speer Lawman .357 sig (53919) from Target Sports USA. I opened the case yesterday and found the ammo to be (what looks like) poor condition. The brass and bullets have discoloring and scratches. I've never seen factory ammo from any brand look like this. I've never seen non-shiny factory pistol ammo.

The discoloring looks like it would scrape off easily with a fingernail, but it doesn't.

In addition to the discoloring, I can see a small gap between the bullet and the brass (see the right side of the photo with the close-up of the photo).

I did the best I could with capturing images, but they look even worse in person.

I e-mailed Target Sports last night but will probably have to wait until Monday for a response.

I'm asking this on a forum because this is my first batch of .357 sig. I just made the leap to this caliber. When I shot .223 I remember some factory Federal ammo (black box) looking dirty, but that's just how it was. And Speer Lawman .357 sig from almost any vendor is noticeably cheaper than other brands (which isn't the case with other calibers).

So I'm wondering if I got a bad case, or if all Speer Lawman .357 sig ammo is beat up like this, hence the lower price?

 

[Old Dog]

Oxidation. Brass and copper are subject to all types of atmospheric corrosion. Appears those cartridges have been around for quite a while or stored subject to some humidity.

Ammo should still function, but does look like crap.

 

[coondogger]

Agree. It's simply tarnished a bit.

 

[southwestheat]

The discoloration I can deal with since it's just range ammo.

What bothers me most is that the bullet doesn't look like it's seated symmetrically. There's a small gap between the bullet and the brass on one side. It doesn't show that well in the photo but it's there on the right side. Seems like that would cause inaccuracy issues if not worse.

This stuff must have spent years on the warehouse shelf through all kinds of temperature and humidity changes causing the discoloration and possible warping. I guess that's one downside to shooting an unusual caliber.

Hopefully Target Sports sends me a return label. I'll wait for American Eagle to be in stock.

 

[Flechette]

It would be interesting to shoot that box over a chrony. You could shoot slowly one by one so as to avoid and chances for damage. I'd like to see if there is a larger velocity dispersion (signifying powder contamination due air leaking into the case).

Also, feeding reliability due to non-perfectly circular rims. Will the surface tarnish be removed after one firing? There does not appear to be much of a crimp at all. Does it headspace entirely on the shoulder?

It could be a fun gun science day!

 

[lonegunman]

Are you shooting it or making a window display? I'd shoot a few and see if they actually work before I got too upset.

 

[southwestheat]

Are you shooting it or making a window display? I'd shoot a few and see if they actually work before I got too upset.

Like I said twice now (maybe you need new glasses?), the bullets aren't seated properly. That could cause anything ranging from accuracy issues to safety issues.

 

[Chuck R.]

They look "OK", it's a taper crimp, the majority of the bullet is seated in the case neck. Two pretty easy tests:

1. Take your barrel out and drop each round in the chamber, they should seat flush with a nice 'plunk" noise.
2. IF you have a set of calipers take an OAL measurement, then using a bathroom scale push down on the bullets to about 35lbs of pressure, then re-check the oAL. No serious movement and your neck tension is "OK"

Chuck

 

[dogtown tom]

There's not a darned thing "wrong" with that box of ammunition.
You bought budget quality ammo and expected premium quality ammo.

 

[BigBore44]

It's simple.... if you're worried about it, send it back. I don't shoot ammo that isn't properly aligned, seated, and/or crimped. When dealing with miniature hand grenades, I'd rather be safe than missing a few fingers.

 

[southwestheat]

There's not a darned thing "wrong" with that box of ammunition.
You bought budget quality ammo and expected premium quality ammo.

I've always thought of Speer Lawman as being closer to premium than budget, as far as FMJ is concerned. I'm always open to higher quality range ammo. What would you consider to be a more premium FMJ load?

 

[243winxb]

Looks like a full refund is in order.

 

[redbullitt]

I would say there is probably not an issue. I have sent speed strips of 38 and 357 through the wash lol... Naturally they became range ammo, BUT they have all (maybe 30 or something over years lol) fired just as if nothing was the matter. SOOO I doubt you'd have an issue.

As far as the bullet seating there in the case, I don't see anything that would scare me out of using it. Test out the neck tension on a few and see where they are.

All that said, it is as your discretion AND if you are unhappy see if they will refund or exchange. Never know unless you ask.

 

[Shaq]

There's not a darned thing "wrong" with that box of ammunition.
You bought budget quality ammo and expected premium quality ammo.

I've bought cases of Speer Lawman & NONE looked like that. It's a bad batch & I wouldn't put them in my gun.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I've see ammo in this shape before. Worked fine.

Deaf

 

[entropy]

"Choot 'em!"
I lost a speed strip full of Speer Gold Dot snubbie loads in the snow, and found them 3 months later. They looked about like yours. All fired fine. As for the concentricity (non) issue, it's training (range) ammo, not duty ammo.

 

[illinoisburt]

Are all 20 boxes the same condition or just one? Also, check the lot numbers if they look different from box to box (the bullet and seating, not brass tarnish). That ammo was loaded with two different bullets. One was a standard fmj the other a tmj (think plated). On ammo specifically made to be cheaper range fodder, I would not be shocked at some concentric issues with the tmj.

Regardless spending $300 on ammo would hope they make it right.

 

[mjsdwash]

I wouldent worry much about the staining, but the bullet setback is enough to worry. Speer/CCI/Blazer have some neck tension issues, I cannot reload any of those cases in 9 because the bullets fall to the bottom of the cases with about 5 pounds of force. .357 sig is much more sensitive to overpressure. I would call CCI about that.

 

[Speedo66]

Are those actually two different bullet types shown from the same case?

If so, that would be enough for me to want another case. Looks like dribs and drabs thrown together. One would usually expect more from Speer, which I consider to be a tier up ammo maker.

 

[HB]

I don't see an issue really... I would shoot it. If you like your ammo to be shiny maybe throw it in a tumbler like some reloaders do.

My 38 reloads look like they are from the early 1900s. Dirty cases don't seem to effect ignition or ejection.

HB

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I've see ammo in this shape before. Worked fine.

Deaf

Same here

 

[sakata8242]

I ordered a case of Speer Lawman .357 sig (53919) from Target Sports USA. I opened the case yesterday and found the ammo to be (what looks like) poor condition. The brass and bullets have discoloring and scratches. I've never seen factory ammo from any brand look like this. I've never seen non-shiny factory pistol ammo.

The discoloring looks like it would scrape off easily with a fingernail, but it doesn't.

In addition to the discoloring, I can see a small gap between the bullet and the brass (see the right side of the photo with the close-up of the photo).

I did the best I could with capturing images, but they look even worse in person.

I e-mailed Target Sports last night but will probably have to wait until Monday for a response.

I'm asking this on a forum because this is my first batch of .357 sig. I just made the leap to this caliber. When I shot .223 I remember some factory Federal ammo (black box) looking dirty, but that's just how it was. And Speer Lawman .357 sig from almost any vendor is noticeably cheaper than other brands (which isn't the case with other calibers).

So I'm wondering if I got a bad case, or if all Speer Lawman .357 sig ammo is beat up like this, hence the lower price?View attachment 232538 View attachment 232539 View attachment 232540 View attachment 232541 View attachment 232542

That's pretty typical for Speer/Federal range ammunition. Even their defensive ammo comes with imperfectly polished brass. It's always functioned fine, and it's always been quality ammo for me. If you want pretty, shiny cases, look at S&B or European made ammunition. Freedom Munitions has also always shipped me squeaky clean, bright shiny polished brass. It's also remanufactured, and an excellent value. Can't judge the ammo by appearance alone.

 

[JimKirk]

I shoot a lot of 357 SIG ... most of it being reloads ...

The discoloration is nothing to worry over ...

It does appear that those bullets are seated a little deeper than they should be ... past the ogive ...
There could be several reasons ... The bullet is not seated square .... The brass is not square itself or the bullet may not be perfect as we'd like ... Those fmj are not too shelf bullets ...

That being said ...I'd have to shoot a few just to see if they would shoot worth a hoot ...

 

[coondogger]

They're bullets, not diamonds. Cosmetic flaws don't detract from their intended purpose. If on the other hand, you find that they are keyholing, or obviously inaccurate, then you can get fussy about it.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Send 'em here. I'll dispose of them properly for you.

Any "gap" there looks like a slight chamfer on the ID of the neck. No way they're seated crooked without the neck being twisted in your side view pic, which it isn't.