Sportsmans Guide now identifying 5.56 vs. .223

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It's the same cartridge. Military spec has thicker case wall. Hardly something to claim they are two different species of ammunition.

Same reloading dies can reload both types. If it wasn't the same cartridge please explain how that's possible?

There could be a legal advantage to this. if ammo regulation involving military ammo ever takes effect one could claim the .223 is not military ammo.
 
Does it make you feel a little more confident that you know exactly what your getting? Does it not matter to most folks do you think?
 
I'm sure its just a case of making sure the cartridge a customer buys is the cartridge indicated on the box.

I.E. There is somebody out there who will buy a case of 5.56 x 45 mm and will be ticked off that the box says .223 Remington and vice versa.

Technically there is some difference between the two but I don't believe it is enough to make a difference to the average shooter.
 
I'm sure most have seen this, but it's always worth repeating.
From the Winchester website:
.223 Rem VS 5.56mm-

There are a lot of questions about these two cartridges. Many people think they are identical - merely different designations for commercial and military. The truth is that, although somewhat similar, they are not the same and you should know the differences before buying either cartridge.


The cartridge casings for both calibers have basically the same length and exterior dimensions.

The 5.56 round, loaded to Military Specification, typically has higher velocity and chamber pressure than the .223 Rem.

The 5.56 cartridge case may have thicker walls, and a thicker head, for extra strength. This better contains the higher chamber pressure. However, a thicker case reduces powder capacity, which is of concern to the reloader.

The 5.56mm and .223 Rem chambers are nearly identical. The difference is in the "Leade". Leade is defined as the portion of the barrel directly in front of the chamber where the rifling has been conically removed to allow room for the seated bullet. It is also more commonly known as the throat. Leade in a .223 Rem chamber is usually .085". In a 5.56mm chamber the leade is typically .162", or almost twice as much as in the 223 Rem chamber.

You can fire .223 Rem cartridges in 5.56mm chambers with this longer leade, but you will generally have a slight loss in accuracy and velocity over firing the .223 round in the chamber with the shorter leade it was designed for.

Problems may occur when firing the higher-pressure 5.56mm cartridge in a .223 chamber with its much shorter leade. It is generally known that shortening the leade can dramatically increase chamber pressure. In some cases, this higher pressure could result in primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads and gun functioning issues.

The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.


Before buying either of these two types of ammunition, always check your gun to find what caliber it is chambered for, then buy the appropriate ammunition. Most 5.56mm rounds made have full metal jacket bullets. Performance bullets - soft points, hollow points, Ballistic Silvertips, etc. - are loaded in .223 Rem cartridges. Firing a .223 Rem cartridge in a 5.56mm-chambered gun is safe and merely gives you slightly reduced velocity and accuracy.

However we do not recommend, nor does SAAMI recommend, firing a 5.56mm cartridge in a gun chambered for the .223 Rem as the shorter leade can cause pressure-related problems.
Click to expand...

I do not want to order .223 and recieve 5.56mm instead. I shoot .223 in my .223 marked SP1.

I know others have interchanged them with no problems and will continue to do so.

Tinpig
 
Keep in mind the mini-14 was chambered for .223. At least during the 80s and 90s it was. Who hasn't shot both military and civilian through them without problems?
 
there is a difference between the .223cal and 5.56mm. This discussion has always bothered me because in practice they are very different, as i recall a 5.56mm round should run at 58,000 psi in a 5.56 chambered rifle, but in a .223 due to the chamber difference will run at 78,000 psi. that's a difference of 20,000 psi which can be very dangerous, all of this is due to the leade on the rifle (area between the tip of the round and where the bullet is engaged by the rifling.
i hope this helps

-kirk
 
The only issue you will come across is in reloading. Factory ammo whether mil spec or civilian will shoot fine in both barrels.
 
I'd like to see a real example where firing 5.56 ammo in a gun marked .223 has actually caused an issue. I see lots of arguments about longer vs. shorter leade and possibilities.

I've certainly shot Malaysian surplus 5.56 in my bolt action Weatherby Vanguard .223 with no issues other that it not being as accurate as the .223 Remington 55gr JSP commercial stuff.

With multi-million dollar lawsuits over serving too hot coffee, I can't see anybody making and selling a .223 rifle that can't shoot 5.56 ammo safely.

I'll change my tune with a documented case of real damage from firing factory 5.56 in a production .223 rifle.

Until then, its really low on my list of worries.

--wally.
 
Funny aside from a warning about military case walls being thicker and thus less powder capacity, all my handloading books that I have do not distinct between the two. So apparently they are the same species. Same shoulder angle, shoulder headspace, lenght of case, base size.

I fire .223 45 grain winchester usa through my AR-15 and print 3/4 inch groups with it at a hundred yards. Apparently leade has very little effect on the accuracy of that gun.

Ruger minis are chambered for .223 but shoot military ss109 into 2 and half inch groups. No problems there no malfunctions. etc. etc.

There is more of similiarity between military and civilian brass than there is between steel case and military brass.

Are steel cased ammo a different cartridge as well?
 
The way I understand it if the barrel is stamped 5.56 that means the chamber has been proof tested for the higher NATO pressure. If it is stamped .223 it only has to meet the SAAMI specs, but may still have been designed to handle the 5.56.

So a 5.56 can handle either round, but substituting in a .223 could result in a lot of extra wear and tear on the firearm, depending on the manufacturer.
 
[The mini 14 has always had a 5.56mm chamber.
Click to expand...

conflicting information it seems

Your argument is mute I am afraid *whistling*

RUGER Mini-14 Autoloading Rifle, Model Mini-14/5, 223 Remington
Caliber, 18 1/2" Blued Barrel, Hardwood Stock, Sights

Convenience without the complexities. The Ruger Mini-14, Ranch Rifle,
and Mini Thirty offer inherent accuracy, light weight, low recoil, and
a quick repeat shot capability that makes them the favorite of
ranchers and outdoorsmen. Constructed of relatively few components,
all three of these proven rifles provide the convenience of an
autoloader without the complexities often associated with this type of
firearm. Their simple, rugged design ensures dependable performance
even with rough use.

The Mini-14 and Ranch Rifle are designed to get the most out of the
powerful .223 cartridge. They're perfect when a few quick shots are
needed, and they've had their mettle tested on farms and ranches
across America. The Mini Thirty is about the same size at the Ranch
Rifle but is chambered for the well-respected 7.62 x 39mm cartridge.
It is an ideal short-range deer rifle, affording big-bore performance
in a compact, self-loading sporting rifle. On all three models, the
safety blocks both the hammer and the sear, and the slide can be
cycled with the safety engaged. A bolt-lock mechanism holds the bolt
open for cleaning and inspection.

SPECIFICATIONS:

Caliber: 223 Remington or 7.62X39mm

Action: Gas-operated autoloader

Finish: Blue or Stainless

Safety: Mounted in the front of trigger guard

Barrel: 18 1/2"

Sights: Blade front on all, Mini-14 has rear adjustable.
Ranch rifle and Mini-thirty have fold-down rear
w/rings included.

Mag Cap: 5 rounds

Stock: Hardwood or Synthetic

OAL: 37 1/8"

Weight: 6 1/2 to 6 7/8 pounds

Accessories: Supplied with cable lock and owner's manual.
Click to expand...

Another source from Ruger itself

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Rifle&subtype=Autoloading&famlst=20
 
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Because they are the same round.

There are small differences in the internal capacity between winchester brass and Remington brass. Does that make Winchester .223 a different round than Remington .223?

Mil-spec is rated to withstand higher pressures due to a thicker case. Due to this powder capacity is reduced. that's all.

As I said you could break down every type of .223/5.56 into a hundred rounds if you want to. I guarantee the internal capacity between steel case and brass military are different. Both will shoot through an AR15 or a bolt action .223 fine.
 
The reason you can fire either is because the Mini 14 has a 5.56mm chamber. Nothing Ned has posted refutes that. Ruger has always stamped the Mini 14 as being 223 caliber. But the chamber is a 5.56mm chamber.

It does not matter if 223 Rem and 5.56mm are the same cartridge or not. The issue is that the chamber size is different between the two.
 
Lots of confusing stuff here....

At the gun shows and one gun rag I read they claimed that you could shoot a .223 in a 5.56 but not a 5.56 in a .223, sure it would chamber and shoot but you ran a high risk of damaging the gun, I thought this had something to do with case legnth....:confused:
Maybe we should take this over to the AR-15 forum, bet someone there could clarify this.
 
At the gun shows and one gun rag I read they claimed that you could shoot a .223 in a 5.56 but not a 5.56 in a .223, sure it would chamber and shoot but you ran a high risk of damaging the gun, I thought this had something to do with case legnth
Click to expand...

No case length is the same. You use the same dies to load either. The external dimensions fo the cartridges are the same.

5.56 is often "hotter" than 223 Rem. By that I mean it is faster for a given bullet weight. The 5.56 chamber is also a little bigger than a 223 chamber.

So shooting 5.56 mm ammo in a small chamber (ie, 223) means you are shooting a more powerful round in a smaller chamber, so your pressure is higher, and might damage a gun with a 223 chamber.
 
5.56 is often "hotter" than 223 Rem. By that I mean it is faster for a given bullet weight. The 5.56 chamber is also a little bigger than a 223 chamber.
Click to expand...
OK maybe that is what it was, I just was trying to remember from the story I read over a year ago there was some difference N that sounds real close....
 
No case length is the same. You use the same dies to load either. The external dimensions fo the cartridges are the same.

5.56 is often "hotter" than 223 Rem. By that I mean it is faster for a given bullet weight. The 5.56 chamber is also a little bigger than a 223 chamber.

So shooting 5.56 mm ammo in a small chamber (ie, 223) means you are shooting a more powerful round in a smaller chamber, so your pressure is higher, and might damage a gun with a 223 chamber.
Click to expand...

This is not a correct statement. Internal capacity of mil-spec .223 brass is smaller than for civilian .223.

It's impossible to have both a thick case and more internal volume.

The problem that can happen is really only handloaded related. If you try to shove the same amount of powder in a mil-spec case that you would a civilian you will find you have to compress the powder and also due to this when the cartridge fires there will be more internal pressure.

With mil spec brass you have to start low sometimes and work your way up.

Both .223 and 5.56 both have the exact same headspacing.

Why?

Because they are the same cartridge. Just different brass manufacturing specs.
 
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