cslinger
Member
If only there were some kind of aftermarket parts available for the 1911. If only.....
This is my "mil spec" RIA.
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The configuration of the grip safety reflects the pre WW1 standard operating procedure for the carry of the pistol. The pistol was to be carried, round in the chamber, hammer down, pistol in the flap holster. The primary user of the pistol was the Horse Cavalry. Upon drawing the pistol the user cocked the hammer. Since one hand was to be holding the reins, the hammer was expected to be thumb cocked. If the Horse Calvary user needed, he could make the pistol safe with one hand. The A1 configuration, which is the configuration of most "mil spec" 1911's, were still designed for hammer cocking. The pre WW1 versions, that is the 1911 version, the grip safety was even smaller and hammer bite was common. The grip safety in the A1 version, the tang was made longer, to protect from hammer bite, but not enough long enough to prevent the user from thumb cocking the pistol.
So, if you want a 1926 vintage A1 configuration 1911, you are going to have to live with tactical reasoning of the times. It reflects the carry and combat philosophy of the period.
This is an early mil spec Springfield Armory that has been extensively modified.
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The mil spec grip safety has been removed and a beavertail grip safety installed This is much more comfortable to shoot, does not dig a hole in the web of the shooting hand. However, it makes thumb cocking virtually impossible. This pistol was designed around the carry concept of cocked and locked. To shoot this, you must ride the elongated thumb safety, with your thumb, or you run the very real risk of knocking the safety into the "safe" position, when you want the safety to be "off". This configuration, in my opinion, was designed to meet the needs of competitors in quick draw games. I am of the opinion that carrying a 1911 cocked and locked is risky as the safety is easily bumped off. You can find lots of threads where this has happened. And then, with these extended safeties, easily bumped on, when the shooter wants the safety off.
I have expressed my opinion on later configuration 1911's in this thread:
1911 Reliability for Self Defense?
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1911-reliability-for-self-defense.845516/page-5
I can't speak to the general opinion, but I was taught by a long-time lawman, gun dealer, and occasional gunsmith that thumb cocking the hammer makes racking the slide much easier.Could you elaborate more on the hammer down carry? Isn't that dangerous with one in the pipe? Isn't thumb cocking the hammer frowned upon?
Yes, it is.Could you elaborate more on the hammer down carry? Isn't that dangerous with one in the pipe? Isn't thumb cocking the hammer frowned upon? I'm new to 1911s.
The configuration of the grip safety reflects the pre WW1 standard operating procedure for the carry of the pistol. The pistol was to be carried, round in the chamber, hammer down, pistol in the flap holster. The primary user of the pistol was the Horse Cavalry. Upon drawing the pistol the user cocked the hammer. Since one hand was to be holding the reins, the hammer was expected to be thumb cocked. If the Horse Calvary user needed, he could make the pistol safe with one hand. The A1 configuration, which is the configuration of most "mil spec" 1911's, were still designed for hammer cocking.
Could you elaborate more on the hammer down carry? Isn't that dangerous with one in the pipe? Isn't thumb cocking the hammer frowned upon? I'm new to 1911s.
I don't believe TheProf is looking for a history lesson. I think he's looking for the safest, most efficient way to carry the 1911 in 2019.Neither of them have a thumb safety. I need to work on some other things, but I would like the cocked and locked acolytes to comment on how they think these were supposed to be carried.
. Likewise the 1911 can discharge if it is dropped with the hammer down on a loaded chamber. This causes me to ask why JMB would have designed the gun with this fault if it was designed to be carried hammer down on loaded chamber.
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Want to bet?He in NO way was suggesting that we should do such things today, merely offering the historical reference for our education. Thank you Sir!
He is a Condition 2 proponent, which for his own personal use is perfectly fine. I simply try to point out to new folks, who are asking how to properly carry the 1911, Slamfire's opinion is outside the norm.If I were to carry a 1911 for a self defense weapon, I would carry something like the RIA, but with better fixed sights. However, the over layout is what I consider adequate for a single action self defense auto. I would have no problem thumb cocking the thing, at least I think I would have no problem thumb cocking the thing.
A valid point, though it was the OP - TheProf - that asked about the safety concerns with Condition 2, so there is some validity to the thread drift.Do we really want to derail yet another thread with a meaningless condition 1 VS condition 2 debate?
Amen, let's stick to the OP's question.Do we really want to derail yet another thread with a meaningless condition 1 VS condition 2 debate?
Wilson Combat offers a drop-in beavertail grip safety for only $36.00. Mine was a true drop-in with no adjustment needed but if you are not familiar with the operation of the 1911 you should have a gunsmith double check it.
Ok. I'm keeping my mil spec. I was ready to sell it but I figured I may try one more time.
This time, i tried the "push pull" method of gripping the pistol. Thumbs forward. ..but really making sure that I had a strong grip and leaned into the gun.. applying forward force with the gun hand.
The end result: it greatly reduced any upward muzzle flip and there by reduced the grip safety prong from digging into my hand.
My next 1911 will have a beaver tail safety ...but for now this seems like a good compromise.