Student suspended for talking about an AK-47

[jsalcedo]

http://www.pottstownmercury.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14318382&BRD=1674&PAG=461&dept_id=18041&rfi=6

POTTSTOWN -- A seventh-grade student was suspended for four days last month after talking in class about bringing an AK-47 assault rifle into Pottstown Middle School.

According to John Armato, the school district's director of community
relations, the incident occurred on Wednesday, March 22.
There is some discrepancy about what the student, whose names is being
withheld because of his age, said.

The student told Pottstown Middle School Principal Wayne Thomas, that the
comment was "if there were no rules, I could bring in an AK-47 for
self-defense."

Several of the seven other students from the class who were interviewed by
Thomas confirmed the student used the phrase -- "if there were no rules,"
Armato said.

However, the teacher who reported the incident told Thomas the student had
said, while talking to other students, "if I had an AK-47 I would come in
and shoot everyone."

Thomas also met with the student's parents, who said the student did not
have access to firearms, as well as the school's resource officer David
Mull.

"Officer Mull met with the parents in order to convince them their child
needs to understand the gravity of this poor choice of words," Armato said.

"Apparently the student has had several conversations with other students
about the ability to shoot a gun on a new piece of property and has said
things to teachers like 'you don't scare me," Armato said.

In addition to the suspension, the parents have agreed to ensure the student
seeks counseling, and have agreed to allow the student to be searched each
morning upon coming to school and upon leaving.

 

[Bear Gulch]

Can thought crime be far off?

 

[Rebar]

Can thought crime be far off?

Thought crime is already here. Go to any state university for all the examples you might want.

 

[Missourigunner]

Sounds like a bit of paranoia to me.

 

[Greg L]

In addition to the suspension, the parents have agreed to ensure the student seeks counseling, and have agreed to allow the student to be searched each morning upon coming to school and upon leaving.

Could he at least get a "My parents are sheep" t-shirt?

 

[Redneck Revolver]

it IS paranoia. almost exactly the same thing happenedc to me shortly befopre i joined the high road.

 

[psyopspec]

almost exactly the same thing happenedc to me shortly befopre i joined the high road.

Redneck, care to fill us in on your story? As interesting as this news article is, I say, as always, it's too short on information to make any calls. If you'd share what you went through, that might be an interesting discussion. Make a new thread to keep this one from being highjacked.

 

[chaim]

Several of the seven other students from the class who were interviewed by
Thomas confirmed the student used the phrase -- "if there were no rules,"
Armato said.

However, the teacher who reported the incident told Thomas the student had
said, while talking to other students, "if I had an AK-47 I would come in
and shoot everyone."

Since the article sets it up as if there is some controversy over what was said, having spent time in a classroom on the teacher's end (long-term sub) I believe the teacher. I couldn't count how many times a kid right in front of me makes a statement clear as day, then when I punished the kid his/her friends on the other side of the room who likely didn't even hear what he/she said insisted he/she said something else.

Still, that is irrelevant.

Should the kid be suspended, of course not. Still, if he said what the teacher said he did ("if I had an AK-47 I would come in and shoot everyone."), it could be taken as a threat. The days of "kids will be kids" when they say things like that are rightly over.

A few sessions with a school counselor to see why he said that are in order and then possible follow-up (depending upon the reasons for what he said). Maybe it was meant as a threat to the school or an individual. Maybe (highly unlikely) it was a warning signal of a possible Columbine type attack. Maybe it was to express frustration over bullying. Maybe it was because he desperately wanted/needed some kind of attention. Maybe it was nothing. Those questions need to be investigated, and sending him home for a few days won't help.

 

[cookekdjr]

Reasonableness here depends upon whether the kid said he'd come to school and shoot everybody or not.
Kid making terroristic threats= justified suspension and counseling.
Kid engaging in idle speculation and hypothesizing=unjustified suspension and paranoia.

 

[svtruth]

1A Rights

Why do schools get to get away with violating students' First Amendment rights?

 

[KnightHawk67]

They get away with crushing 1A because we allow them to. They do it because they think that if they don't allow kids to talk about things, they wont do them. Typical head in the sand tactics.

 

[Gun Wielding Maniac]

Something similar happened to me. I was in high school when the whole Columbine disaster happened.

There were some people at the school I attended who had a grudge against me. Most everyone knew I had some rifles and shotguns and liked to shoot.

Few days after Columbine, I'm called into the office to see that my mom is waiting there... One of these jerk-weed students, they wouldnt tell me who, had said that I had "made a threatening comment about wanting to shoot up the school." Of course, I had done no such thing and since they would not reveal to me the name of this person, I couldnt even prove that a personal grudge was involved.

I wasnt kicked out or suspended, but they made my mom agree to have me attend counseling before I could go back. After that, I pretty much decided I was done there. It was my junior year... I completed my high school education at another school.

I find it infuriating every time I read of these ridiculous "zero-tolerance" type knee jerk reactions in the newspaper. Heck, even 30 years ago, kids would bring their rifles and shotguns to school on the way to practice for ROTC. It's pathetic.

 

[chaim]

GWM-
There is a big difference between your case where some anynomous student said you said something and this article where the teacher heard the student say he wanted to shoot up the school. You were wronged (the principal should have investigated, but not taken as gospel some anynomous complaint from a student who the administration probably knew had issues with you), this student in the article shouldn't have been suspended, but in his case counseling is a good idea.

 

[Shane333]

Interesting.

One Halloween I went to high school dressed as the Terminator, complete with a metal toy sawed-off shotgun. No big deal. The other kids thought it was cool and did that spin, lever cocking thing that is done in T2.

My teachers knew I was a good kid and never said a word about it.

I bet a kid would be suspended from my same high school if they dressed up like that now.

 

[Bear Gulch]

I graduated in 1983. In the semi-rural distric that I attended in Georgia, most of the boys carried shotguns in our pickups during hunting season. We'd leave from school and go hunting. Nary a problem was had.

 

[foghornl]

Hmmm

I had more than my share of "oddball" teachers in my publik skool daze...

4th grade teacher was a 'rookie' that talked to herself while writing on blackboard. . .

5th grade was a pathological liar, a cheat and a fraud.

6th grade teacher had to be at least (as seen by 6th graders) 150 years old, and talked to herself both behind desk and at blackboard..and would "nap out" at her desk after lunch..sometimes, we had a quiet time from 1:30 untill the 3:00PM end of day bell rang.

Oldest son's 7th grade teacher that his his books for 3 days, claimed he didn't have them, untill I showed up with a Deputy Sheriff. "You are either giving my son his books back PDQ, or you are going out of here in cuffs. Which is it going to be?" Suddenly, he "remembered" that he had put them in his desk for safekeeping.

Sons 9th grade principal that used to look for students "Smokin' in the Boys Room" would walk down the hall with a lit ciggy in his hand, and used it as a 'throw-down'. I witnessed him try that trick on my son, who didn't smoke.

Just from my experiences, I tend not to take skool offishials at their word without major backup.

 

[Joejojoba111]

"However, the teacher who reported the incident told Thomas the student had
said, while talking to other students, "if I had an AK-47 I would come in
and shoot everyone.""

Isn't that defamation or something? I know lots of people are against lawsuits and lawyers, with good reason, but this deserves a lawsuit. That is total slander, you just can't say that about anyone, especially if you only think you might have maybe heard it correctly.

I know lawsuits can lead to more lawsuits that are frivolous and pointless, but we need lawsuits, they are the poor-person's only way to get justice.

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

Chaim.....

If it was your kid would you believe the teacher over your child? Clearly we don't know enough about the situation but if the kid has no history of violence this is the dumbest thing I have seen in a while and someone would get fired over this crap ! Secondly ,as I have claimed before on this board, kids(practically) have no rights! At home they say what mom and dad wants them to say and do,period. At school they say and do what administrators what them to say and do, period. They are searched at home and school with no substantial evidence required. Drug tested for extracurricular activities and basically are not secure in the person or belongings at school. To some degree I agree. School is not your home and you can not bring whatever you want to public places....But even moreso, my gut tells me it is wrong to treat these future members of society as less than human or second class citizens ! Punishing the many for the actions of a few doesn't work, and has the added effect of alienating memebers from under the authority or power you want them to follow.....

 

[bbrins]

They have a kid that allegedly made threats about shooting up the school with an AK-47 and they are going to humiliate this kid everyday by searching him?! If he really was serious, wouldn't that just enrage him even more and possibly make matters worse? I kind of wonder though if this teacher might have been really anti-gun and really exaggerated what the kid said.

 

[Myself]

I cancelled my subscription to that rag of a paper 15 years ago. I would not trust anything they report. This was after first hand expierence with how they manipulate a story for sensationalism. Pottstown is a crummy town with lots of problems not the least of which is the newspaper.

There may or may not be some credibility to the story but I would have to see it from another source to even begin to take it seriously. YMMV

 

[Shalako]

If we don't support the teachers, who are we going to find to teach our kids?

I would like kids to be able to talk freely about their firearms enthusiasm in school. Heck, I love guns. But first time you say you are going to shoot someone and its off to the workfarm for you. Your privelege of an education is hereby revoked. I don't care if the school district doesn't get paid the incremental amount for you filling a chair. Your presence was deleterious to the learning environment. Bu-bye.

If some little ingrate said that in front of my wife, I would back her 100% to get the kid expelled. Especially with the reality of psycho kids now days. There have been two separate school shooting plots uncovered in the Sacramento area in the last two years.

But, if the student's side of the story is true, I have no beef with the kid.

 

[Roc_Kor]

Suspended for talking about AK-47s in school?

I must be next... I do it everyday. Will they hurt me?


I talk about guns 99% of the time while in school. No one has a beef. Guns are the subjects of 99% of my English papers/assignments. I have the 2nd Amendment written on my Geography folder, along with things like RKBA and BA/UU/R. I'm open about my AK-47. (Which I wuv wit all my wittle heart ) And there are people who hate me. A lot of them. None of them seem to be bothered nor afraid of my AK-47, not that I've threatened them. I've also talked about bringing my AK into school. I would love to do that. It'd be a safest school in the area, I'll tell you that! Plus I'll get to show all my friends my... well, little friend!

And if the situation arises, I will tell someone that I am not afraid of them. Because I am not. I fear no one, but not just because of my guns.

 

[Standing Wolf]

...I had done no such thing and since they would not reveal to me the name of this person, I couldnt even prove that a personal grudge was involved.
I wasnt kicked out or suspended, but they made my mom agree to have me attend counseling before I could go back.

Mao would be proud.

 

[Bear Gulch]

"they are going to humiliate this kid everyday by searching him?"

Is that an AK in your pocket, or are you just happto see me?

 

[kngflp]

I worked for PETCO and 3 other employees also were into shooting and guns. A fellow employee complained that we were always talking about guns and it made her uncomfortable, HR came down and one of the managers (one of my gun-buds) got in trouble, HR made it clear how PETCO felt about guns. We were no longer allowed to talk about guns at work, and we all had to leave our pocket knives at home in exchange for box cutters. PETCO sucks I quit end of story.