DontBurnMyFlag
Member
FFL huh? too bad. Ive heard stories, which quickly turned into nightmares. The only thing the french are good at. That and maid outfits...
Studied a few street fights
- Thread starter KriegHund
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there are good Street fighters and bad. I have seen both in action. A good Street fighter can be very dangerous. Even if they have not had any training they use alot of Karate moves and are very quick with thier hands. If you do not believe lets go for a walk on the west side of my town. But it has turned to guns and knifes in the last few years
There is a diff in a bar fighter (drunk), a brawler (overpower you) and a
street fighter (kick your ....) Thats why in my old age I carry if I can remember , been hit in the head to many times.
There is a diff in a bar fighter (drunk), a brawler (overpower you) and a
street fighter (kick your ....) Thats why in my old age I carry if I can remember , been hit in the head to many times.
bogie
Member
Language is the best weapon... Avoid the fight, and reason. Until you can't avoid it, but you've got your people beside/behind the ejectee...
When I was in college, I needed to take a PE course. Now, I'd been living on the third floor (the big guys got to do the stairs...) of an athletic dorm, and it seemed like half the folks there were working out... We had fu-ers, we had do-ers, several black belts among 'em, and we even had a former TV wrassler, which was really interesting... So when classes got scheduled, I signed up for karate...
There I was, sitting in the circle around the black belt instructor, when he announces how superior his style is, etc., etc., and I guess it looked like I wasn't paying enough attention, because he then picked the largest person in the room to be his demonstration subject. He does his bowing, etc., and I'm doing my best to play along with him, and do exactly what he tells me, and he's whippin' all this fancy mojo, etc., and it's pretty cool. And he's explaining how someone who weighs maybe 140 pounds, black belt and fancy pjs included, can whup up on a 250 pound football player. He tells me to come at him, and try to hit him. So I did.
Then he hit me in the nose.
Owie. Bogie not like that.
He went crunchie about the same way that a lightly protected quarterback goes crunchie... From what I heard, he had a coupla broken ribs, and I dropped the class. Ended up taking Bait & Fly Casting, which was much more fun.
When I was in college, I needed to take a PE course. Now, I'd been living on the third floor (the big guys got to do the stairs...) of an athletic dorm, and it seemed like half the folks there were working out... We had fu-ers, we had do-ers, several black belts among 'em, and we even had a former TV wrassler, which was really interesting... So when classes got scheduled, I signed up for karate...
There I was, sitting in the circle around the black belt instructor, when he announces how superior his style is, etc., etc., and I guess it looked like I wasn't paying enough attention, because he then picked the largest person in the room to be his demonstration subject. He does his bowing, etc., and I'm doing my best to play along with him, and do exactly what he tells me, and he's whippin' all this fancy mojo, etc., and it's pretty cool. And he's explaining how someone who weighs maybe 140 pounds, black belt and fancy pjs included, can whup up on a 250 pound football player. He tells me to come at him, and try to hit him. So I did.
Then he hit me in the nose.
Owie. Bogie not like that.
He went crunchie about the same way that a lightly protected quarterback goes crunchie... From what I heard, he had a coupla broken ribs, and I dropped the class. Ended up taking Bait & Fly Casting, which was much more fun.
bogie
Member
He stepped back, and I kept coming - only I went from "let's play at attacking pajamaboy" to "let's sack pajamaboy"... Picked him up, and basically fell on him at speed... got bloodstains from my nose all over his nice pjs too...
Bogie
6'2", and about 325# today... Gotta get back on Atkins...
Bogie
6'2", and about 325# today... Gotta get back on Atkins...
dmallind
Member
DontBurnMyFlag said:
Yeah - I suppose if you're French you have to get foreigners to come do your nasty face to face fighting for you
I have no idea how good the Legion are at real military stuff - not my area of expertise - but in a bar fight that particular example was about the best I've ever come across.
BTW I honestly don't mean that insult about the French, but I'm English by birth and insulting the French is in my blood
To be honest they were a very capable fighting force indeed until they lost essentially a whole male generation in its prime in WW1. Kinda sucks the fight out of a country I would think.bogie,
That must have been a funny scene to watch! If he was such a bad boy he should have reacted...but obviously he wasn't expecting you to pick him up and hit him with something so hard and heavy- the earth. I don't know why he didn't expect a counter-counter attack after hitting a stranger in the nose...
That must have been a funny scene to watch! If he was such a bad boy he should have reacted...but obviously he wasn't expecting you to pick him up and hit him with something so hard and heavy- the earth. I don't know why he didn't expect a counter-counter attack after hitting a stranger in the nose...
He sounds like he'll one day be what my current sensei would call a "coffee dan". Just a bunch of black belts with big bellies that sit around drinking coffee and talking about how good they used to be.
Seems there's always plenty of those to go around.Stinkyshoe
Member
What do you guys have to say about the adage of "win on the street, lose in the court room"?
bogie, that's a funny story. Glad you didn't kill him! I had a similar experience with a 'martial arts' instructor when i was taking Renzoku Jiu jitsu. I was a white belt(he was a 2nd or 3rd degree black) and I could rough him around the mat for 15 minutes and no submissions or anything. Turns out he learned his martial arts through a video series and was certified by video taping himself and sending the tapes in. He thought highly of himself though.
bogie, that's a funny story. Glad you didn't kill him! I had a similar experience with a 'martial arts' instructor when i was taking Renzoku Jiu jitsu. I was a white belt(he was a 2nd or 3rd degree black) and I could rough him around the mat for 15 minutes and no submissions or anything. Turns out he learned his martial arts through a video series and was certified by video taping himself and sending the tapes in. He thought highly of himself though.
bogie
Member
Oh yeah... Lemme tell you about a major thing of beauty...
When I was in basic training, we had a prior service guy who wanted back in the Army, and they were making him do basic again... He was 35, and former special forces combat medic. He was darn good at keeping us patched together too...
So, it came to pass that we were the number 1 platoon in the number 1 company in the training brigade, so we got ourselves a four hour on-post beer pass. We got permission from the DIs for Randy to get his sew-on stuff put on his BDUs, so a few of us took him to clothing sales, and had it done for him. Nice lookin' patches... Then we headed to the trainee e-club, and proceeded to become one with as many 16 ounce budweisers as we could locate.
After a period of time, school for the MP trainees let out, and a group of them entered the e-club. One of them noticed a youthful looking and hairless "recruit" and assumed that he'd had the stuff sewn on without actually earning it. So the MP trainees attempted to remove the emblems.
I've never seen anything so darn pretty in my entire life.
When we got back to the company area, highly toasted, we got to stand in formation for about an hour, and then listened to a lengthy dissertation from the head DI on just why people shouldn't pick fights with groups of MP trainees and put 'em in the hospital, and if they knew who'd done it, they were gonna come down on 'em like a ton of bricks. Said dissertation was delivered at full volume about 3" from Randy's nose. The DIs couldn't stop grinning...
When I was in basic training, we had a prior service guy who wanted back in the Army, and they were making him do basic again... He was 35, and former special forces combat medic. He was darn good at keeping us patched together too...
So, it came to pass that we were the number 1 platoon in the number 1 company in the training brigade, so we got ourselves a four hour on-post beer pass. We got permission from the DIs for Randy to get his sew-on stuff put on his BDUs, so a few of us took him to clothing sales, and had it done for him. Nice lookin' patches... Then we headed to the trainee e-club, and proceeded to become one with as many 16 ounce budweisers as we could locate.
After a period of time, school for the MP trainees let out, and a group of them entered the e-club. One of them noticed a youthful looking and hairless "recruit" and assumed that he'd had the stuff sewn on without actually earning it. So the MP trainees attempted to remove the emblems.
I've never seen anything so darn pretty in my entire life.
When we got back to the company area, highly toasted, we got to stand in formation for about an hour, and then listened to a lengthy dissertation from the head DI on just why people shouldn't pick fights with groups of MP trainees and put 'em in the hospital, and if they knew who'd done it, they were gonna come down on 'em like a ton of bricks. Said dissertation was delivered at full volume about 3" from Randy's nose. The DIs couldn't stop grinning...
I much prefer the "cry in the dojo, laugh on the battlefield"
quote myself, but to answer your question...In my dojo we look at this problem all the time, especialy nowadays with the way lawsuits are thrown around. The bottom line is if you have had any kind of formal training, and heck, even if you haven't, the best thing in the world is to avoid the fight. And as I've said in a previous post, I know a fight cannot always be avoided, and if you HAD to fight, well, again, those tend to be the more clear cut cases.
The lawyers will just eat it up if you're a black belt. They don't care if you got it from a Cracker Jack box, a mail-order dojo, or from a crusty old guy that can float around living in some mountain in Asia.
The bottom line is you will be considered "above the norm" and judged at a higher standard than others (at least that's the way it goes in my state). If you exhaust all your options and are pretty much forced to fight, you will stand a better chance in the courtroom. Where people lose the courtroom battles is when they are in a bar drunk and some dude pushes them and they yell back, and then the guy pushes again, etc. Then the witnesses usually don't see anything until the first punch is thrown, and the LEO's generally don't take much stock in the witness that smells like puke and can barely stand. In my experience it it best to avoid those places where liquor and beer flows so freely. That's just my very humble two cents.my experience is a great uppercut will end most things, nice jaw shot or even catch them in the throat. i boxed some in the army not enough to get great but enough that i can handle myself, most of the fights ive been involved in ive been jumped in bars while someone was after a friend. i'd handle the person jumping me clock the guy on my buddy generally @ the base of the skull then get the hell out before the authorities showed. after breaking a kids nose i learned to stay away from the face. luckily no one would identify me.
street/bar fighting (loss of firearms result)
This is a pretty refreshing thread. Some of these self defense threads are simply boil down to "shoot perp" or "don't shoot perp", and everyone is talking about something they never have done and will probably never do in their whole lives (hopefully). That is the big difference with street fighting. As much as many of us vow our "fighting days are over", there is a much higher chance of getting into physical combat than getting into a shoot out.
Couple of observations. I was impressed to hear guys admitting "yes I have lost a fight(s)". There is no quicker way to spot a fake than someone who claims "I've won every fight in my entire life since age 10, I haven't even been punched, EVER... etc etc." If you have never gotten beat up, you've never been in a real fight.
Another thing I've noticed is usually, the most dangerous fighters (at the bar), the ones you really do not want to mess with, are the ones who say the least and have a long fuse. Meanwhile, the little guy who has had too many beers and is barking like a little dog, running his mouth... is the guy who can't fight at all, and expects you to either back down or for all his friends to jump you if you call his bluff. I'm sure some of you have seen this difference, especially out at bars.
Here is a quick story, and I would be interested to hear any comments or similar stories. This ties in directly to owning guns and fighting.
A buddy of mine was at a bar about a year ago with a girl. He is a gun enthusiast and hunter. To make a long story short, "Billie the Townie" had too many drinks, began verbally harassing both my friend and his date. My friend is built like a tank, 240 lb mostly muscle, not sure what this guy was thinking. He was actually trying to get out of there and was saying "calm down, you really do not want to fight me... I'm serious". Unfortunately, he had to pay his tab at the bar, and as he is waiting, Billie the townie's "crew" is pumping him up, egging him on. At one point the guy keeps yelling "I'll f___ing kill you dude!" Oddly, bouncers are not doing anything.
Billie the Townie swings and misses, my friend clocks him, breaks his eye socket- Billie is down for the count. Chaos erupts, police arrive shortly.
When it’s all said and done, "Billie" presses charges and plays "victim" role. He says he was sucker punched out of no where. Sadly, the bouncer knew the guy and lied to police, saying my friend swung first. His date was in the bathroom during incident and could not help verify the truth. I think this first and foremost reflects the risk in "winning a bar fight" these days.
The more disturbing part is this. Fast forward, DA says if he doesn’t plead guilty to simple assault he will face felony assault in court. He takes the plea, gets probation and a fine. Luckily he isn't sued. However, 12 months of probation starts up and he is restricted from having any weapons in his possession or around him. PO can drop by his house any time to inspect and search for guns. He owns about 15 guns. Worse, he was just about to go on a big family hunting trip out in Utah, which he couldn't go on. So he had to transfer all guns from his apartment to his father's house and for 12 months he will have to rely on a baseball bat in case a burglar kicks in the door.
I can understand if someone is convicted of a crime with a firearm- then it makes logical sense they shouldn't be allowed any guns, but I'm not sure if in this situation it makes sense to deprive a man of 2nd amendment rights over a bar fight. Just a reminder what can be at stake when you defend yourself during a fight.
Anyone have any stories about a person being prosecuted for defending themselves during a bar fight? Any of you older members wish to compare and contrast the legal difference in getting in a bar fight in the 70s vs nowadays?
This is a pretty refreshing thread. Some of these self defense threads are simply boil down to "shoot perp" or "don't shoot perp", and everyone is talking about something they never have done and will probably never do in their whole lives (hopefully). That is the big difference with street fighting. As much as many of us vow our "fighting days are over", there is a much higher chance of getting into physical combat than getting into a shoot out.
Couple of observations. I was impressed to hear guys admitting "yes I have lost a fight(s)". There is no quicker way to spot a fake than someone who claims "I've won every fight in my entire life since age 10, I haven't even been punched, EVER... etc etc." If you have never gotten beat up, you've never been in a real fight.
Another thing I've noticed is usually, the most dangerous fighters (at the bar), the ones you really do not want to mess with, are the ones who say the least and have a long fuse. Meanwhile, the little guy who has had too many beers and is barking like a little dog, running his mouth... is the guy who can't fight at all, and expects you to either back down or for all his friends to jump you if you call his bluff. I'm sure some of you have seen this difference, especially out at bars.
Here is a quick story, and I would be interested to hear any comments or similar stories. This ties in directly to owning guns and fighting.
A buddy of mine was at a bar about a year ago with a girl. He is a gun enthusiast and hunter. To make a long story short, "Billie the Townie" had too many drinks, began verbally harassing both my friend and his date. My friend is built like a tank, 240 lb mostly muscle, not sure what this guy was thinking. He was actually trying to get out of there and was saying "calm down, you really do not want to fight me... I'm serious". Unfortunately, he had to pay his tab at the bar, and as he is waiting, Billie the townie's "crew" is pumping him up, egging him on. At one point the guy keeps yelling "I'll f___ing kill you dude!" Oddly, bouncers are not doing anything.
Billie the Townie swings and misses, my friend clocks him, breaks his eye socket- Billie is down for the count.
Chaos erupts, police arrive shortly. When it’s all said and done, "Billie" presses charges and plays "victim" role. He says he was sucker punched out of no where. Sadly, the bouncer knew the guy and lied to police, saying my friend swung first. His date was in the bathroom during incident and could not help verify the truth. I think this first and foremost reflects the risk in "winning a bar fight" these days.
The more disturbing part is this. Fast forward, DA says if he doesn’t plead guilty to simple assault he will face felony assault in court. He takes the plea, gets probation and a fine. Luckily he isn't sued. However, 12 months of probation starts up and he is restricted from having any weapons in his possession or around him. PO can drop by his house any time to inspect and search for guns. He owns about 15 guns. Worse, he was just about to go on a big family hunting trip out in Utah, which he couldn't go on. So he had to transfer all guns from his apartment to his father's house and for 12 months he will have to rely on a baseball bat in case a burglar kicks in the door.
I can understand if someone is convicted of a crime with a firearm- then it makes logical sense they shouldn't be allowed any guns, but I'm not sure if in this situation it makes sense to deprive a man of 2nd amendment rights over a bar fight.
Just a reminder what can be at stake when you defend yourself during a fight. Anyone have any stories about a person being prosecuted for defending themselves during a bar fight? Any of you older members wish to compare and contrast the legal difference in getting in a bar fight in the 70s vs nowadays?
asiparks
Member
Ay Dmallind, if it weren't for the Glasgow Handshake my nose might be a fine and beautiful appendage to behold....I bounced a club in Scarborough and a bar in London for a short time in the days before people started stabbing each other for a laugh. I consider myself well lucky that the worst that i suffered were the occassionally buggered ribs and the flat twatted nose. And contrary to what I'd hoped, being a bouncer did in fact completely fail to impress the girls. Well, the nice ones anyway...
Ridge
Member
First off. you don't use your fists and only your fists in a streetfight you use anything else except your fists,unless things just break loose and that's all you have.
That's one reason I started carrying a handgun,just incase someone else tries to start something with me and they have a knife ,slap jack,baseball bat,or some other type of weapon,I'll have the edge because I can back away and still be able to put them down if it comes to that.
That's one reason I started carrying a handgun,just incase someone else tries to start something with me and they have a knife ,slap jack,baseball bat,or some other type of weapon,I'll have the edge because I can back away and still be able to put them down if it comes to that.
1911 guy
Member
Doing right and still losing in court.
Got a friend named Jeff. Bounced in a bar in Mo. for a few years and carried a pistol. One night while tossing a drunk, the drunk began to get the better of him so he pitched the pistol to the bartender to get it out of the fight. A whole barroom full of folks saw this. Drunk later claimed Jeff drew on him and a judge pinned him with felony assault. Now whether it was smart to have a pistol in the first place can be debated in that situation, but getting it out of the fight was the right thing to do. The law apparrently thinks he should have let the drunk grab it and use it.
Got a friend named Jeff. Bounced in a bar in Mo. for a few years and carried a pistol. One night while tossing a drunk, the drunk began to get the better of him so he pitched the pistol to the bartender to get it out of the fight. A whole barroom full of folks saw this. Drunk later claimed Jeff drew on him and a judge pinned him with felony assault. Now whether it was smart to have a pistol in the first place can be debated in that situation, but getting it out of the fight was the right thing to do. The law apparrently thinks he should have let the drunk grab it and use it.
bogie
Member
Yeah... When you know that (a) you can _seriously_ injure or kill someone; and (b) that it could also easily, and possibly even "accidentially" happen to you, you can become very mild...
I'll put up with damn near anything. Some bars tend to attract guys with too much excess testosterone crossed with too much attitude, and I prefer to avoid 'em. I prefer nicer joints overall, where some guy isn't going to take offence that you found his girlfriend attractive in the wet t-shirt show...
Just remembered... This stopped one cold - little fellow, looked like he'd boxed, was showing off for some chick who was eating it up (they always seem to like it until someone starts bleeding on 'em...), and going after the largest guy in the joint... "Can I buy you a beer, and tell you why God loves you?" That just completely freaked him... He ended up being a fairly decent sort.
Of course, I was wearing combat boots, had pepper spray in my right front pocket, and a heavy beer mug in my left hand...
I'll put up with damn near anything. Some bars tend to attract guys with too much excess testosterone crossed with too much attitude, and I prefer to avoid 'em. I prefer nicer joints overall, where some guy isn't going to take offence that you found his girlfriend attractive in the wet t-shirt show...
Just remembered... This stopped one cold - little fellow, looked like he'd boxed, was showing off for some chick who was eating it up (they always seem to like it until someone starts bleeding on 'em...), and going after the largest guy in the joint... "Can I buy you a beer, and tell you why God loves you?" That just completely freaked him... He ended up being a fairly decent sort.
Of course, I was wearing combat boots, had pepper spray in my right front pocket, and a heavy beer mug in my left hand...
Flailing is the natural response w/o training.
I took karate as a kid for a year or two. Was a teenager, lost interest with the typical adolescent lack of focus. Anyhow, years later in college, I did actually end up in a fight. I always thought that dropping out of karate meant I would get rusty and forget everything. To my amazement, the training kicked in without even being conscienscious about it, it was quite surprising and things were happening in what seemed like slow motion. And I fared quite well. I did not flail much, but the opponents flailed wildly, which was much to my advantage. Chicago punches take a lot of time to execute, jabs to the nose don't.
Just wanted to share this point, it's like training that never went away, even though I had not visited the technique for about 10 years.
That's the only fight I've been in and it was about 15 years ago. And yes, knowing how to fight does make it much less desireable an activity, even though you're more prepared for it. However, knowing how to fight seems to make it easier to avoid them to begin with, now that all the adolescent "what are you looking at" stage has long passed.
jeepmor
MrTuffPaws said:
I took karate as a kid for a year or two. Was a teenager, lost interest with the typical adolescent lack of focus. Anyhow, years later in college, I did actually end up in a fight. I always thought that dropping out of karate meant I would get rusty and forget everything. To my amazement, the training kicked in without even being conscienscious about it, it was quite surprising and things were happening in what seemed like slow motion. And I fared quite well. I did not flail much, but the opponents flailed wildly, which was much to my advantage. Chicago punches take a lot of time to execute, jabs to the nose don't.
Just wanted to share this point, it's like training that never went away, even though I had not visited the technique for about 10 years.
That's the only fight I've been in and it was about 15 years ago. And yes, knowing how to fight does make it much less desireable an activity, even though you're more prepared for it. However, knowing how to fight seems to make it easier to avoid them to begin with, now that all the adolescent "what are you looking at" stage has long passed.
jeepmor
That is awesome Bogie. I seriously have to remember that. Most dudes have to pump themselves up for a fight, and asking something like that probably throws them off.
I would say this- the majority of the fights I've been in, in my life, were when I was younger and I drank more. Fights always seem to happen at backyard parties and bars. Now that I am older, I don't even go out that much and I find it much easier to avoid fights. It is obviously much easier for intoxicated people to find a motivation for fighting.
I am not sure how many race fans we have here, but you can run into a lot of young, pumped up guys itching for fights in the infield at races. Of course the majority of NASCAR fans are cool, but you always seem to have a few in the crowd who have beer muscles. I've also found this to be true at the infield of Preakness (the horse race) and any Metallica concert I've been to. Anyone have any stories about these settings?
There are certain places where you sort of have to put your radar on. Do you ever do that? You walk into a crowded bar, and scan the room. You're not just looking around for girls, you sort of can read who is a threat and who isn't just by their body language, their eye contact and the size of the group they are with. I've found it always pays to scan the crowd and assess threats and non-threats. Any thoughts or stories about warning signs someone is a threat in a bar?
Kodiaz
member
The guy in the corner that can see all the entrances, keeps to himself and is drinking soda, LEAVE THAT ONE ALONE. I can guarantee you he won't start it either. Anyone keeping to themselves are usually pretty good candidates for a Don't F with them award. But these people usually don't start trouble.
I haven't been in too many fights in bars/clubs.
The people that can really hurt you are going to do everything in their power to avoid a confrontation. I don't go around looking to throw someone into the floor and break their neck and get myself locked up.
Oh everyone in a bar is a threat drunks are notorious troublemakers so unless you go around with a breathalyzer just figure everybody to be a trouble maker.
I will say this bars that have a high male to female ratio are nothing but trouble. All the testosterone has to go somewhere when the ladies aren't around. Stick to bars that have a lot more AVAILABLE girls than guys no strip joints those are trouble to.
I haven't been in too many fights in bars/clubs.
The people that can really hurt you are going to do everything in their power to avoid a confrontation. I don't go around looking to throw someone into the floor and break their neck and get myself locked up.
Oh everyone in a bar is a threat drunks are notorious troublemakers so unless you go around with a breathalyzer just figure everybody to be a trouble maker.
I will say this bars that have a high male to female ratio are nothing but trouble. All the testosterone has to go somewhere when the ladies aren't around. Stick to bars that have a lot more AVAILABLE girls than guys no strip joints those are trouble to.
bogie
Member
I've never had a problems with strip clubs - In fact, used to work in one. I think that the patrons tend to actually be on a little better behavior overall. Our biggest problem was drunks who wanted to sit at a stage, but who didn't want to pay for it. I'd rather work at a strip club than at a mixed townie/college rock bar... And it ain't the girls - made a resolution a long time ago to not go out with coworkers, and strippers just made it easier - they're doin' it for the money, guys... You walk in, and our objective was to keep you there until you had to use the ATM...
Oh, and domestic issues... Bubba's got his ol' lady stripping, so he can sit home and swill Pabst, and somehow he comes down and gets in, and goes apebleep when she's doing a lap dance.
Oh, and domestic issues... Bubba's got his ol' lady stripping, so he can sit home and swill Pabst, and somehow he comes down and gets in, and goes apebleep when she's doing a lap dance.
mfree
Member
I wear glasses with a heavy prescription. Hence, if I get a shot to the face, likely even with the flailing, I'm blind.
So, I'm pretty much resolved to making a linebacker run into my opponent and force him backwards until he falls, with me on top of him, or we find a wall or other immovable object. I will then commence to turn his skull into a fine powder against it.
And then I'll be asking the police to please find my glasses before they put me in the car and haul me away.
I don't intend to get in many (any) fights.
So, I'm pretty much resolved to making a linebacker run into my opponent and force him backwards until he falls, with me on top of him, or we find a wall or other immovable object. I will then commence to turn his skull into a fine powder against it.
And then I'll be asking the police to please find my glasses before they put me in the car and haul me away.
I don't intend to get in many (any) fights.
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