Stupid business move?

[againstthagrane]

i went into my local gun store the other day looking for a new 9mm to play with. after waiting around for a reasonable time the clerk asked me if i needed some help so i said that i did and i even made myself a lay down sale. i told him i had some money that was burning a hole in my pocket and i wanted a classic type 9mm (glock 17, sig 226, beretta 92fs, czz75...etc)


i had $695 dollars to blow and not a penny more. i saw a new looking used sig p226 sitting in the display case for $650. i had $695 dollars to blow and not a penny more. the sales tax around here is 8.25% so the grand total would have been $703 after tax. i asked if he could drop $8 off of the price so i could buy it today. the guy behind the counter straight up shut me down, his answer: "No...", "our prices are set.". no apology, no remorse. after the cold shut down, i thanked the guy for his time and i left. honestly, as kurt as he was with his reply, he could have offered me an HKP7 for $50 and i still would not have given that place a nickle of my money. it's actually quite hilarious, because this is the third time i've TRIED to buy something from this place due to it having a convenience factor since it's only 10 mins from my house.

i'm not bitter or anything, i ended up buying a brand new glock 17 with the od green frame for $100 less at my favorite gun shop that is 30 mins away from my place and i couldn't be happier.

here is my question...instead of letting a customer who is ready to spend their hard earned money on a pistol walk over $8 wouldn't you do anything to make the sale? i don't know how much guns are marked up but i would assume they bought that pistol in for about $425 if it was marked at $650. call me crazy, but i would much rather make $217 than $0.

 

[Tribal]

Some places just don't like haggling or anything that seems like it. I've know plenty of places who have a rule that if the gun's new, the price is set at what it's marked.

The thing is, the rule can be broken. If you say that you've got precisely X amount and it's pretty close, they'll do it. Some places even leave their employees the "magic 3-5% off card" to throw down if they really need to make the sale.

As for the used P226, I can't imagine why they wouldn't sell it to you for $8 less. Maybe that employee was new or was on thin ice with his manager. Maybe he wanted the gun for himself. My opinion is that you ought to call the manager and share your experience with him and tell him that he missed out on a sale because of the employee's inflexibility.

 

[bogie]

Or maybe the place had had too many counter people cut deals for friends that turned out to be kind of stupid, and now the owners have the "engraved in stone" pricing rule...

Odds are, they've figured out a cost+shipping+setting+percentage of profit figure, and they're going to stick to it.

 

[againstthagrane]

bogie,

i could definitely see that being a possible cause.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I would say, that for the counter guy, not knowing you and him not being the owner/manager, it was a good move. Maybe he doesn't have the authority, and maybe bogie's circumstances are indeed correct.

I would call and speak to someone truly in charge. Maybe they can make an exception for you and get your $695 without having to dismantle their whole policy.

 

[hopelessjoe]

The gun shop I have dealt with for years will work with your budget (provided you actually plan to be a good consumer and give them a decent chunk of your change for years to come) as long as they won't have to take a big hit.

A certain minimum markup is required in order to stay in business...

An 8 dollar faux pas is not good.

Did you ask to speak to the owner?

That how I generally get my best deals. The counter help is not always willing/able to deal with price ''negotiation''.

 

[Run&Shoot]

Every business has to decide what they need in markup to make it worthwhile to stay in business. An intangible factor often overlooked is the gaining of a "loyal customer."

With big retailers and the Internet the concept of a loyal customer has nearly disappeared. How many customers blow smoke about how many they will buy in the future and turn right around and buy the next five products off the Internet?

I have been a dissed customer and walked out same as you, but I am under no illusion my purchases every few years is going to make one whit of difference to any one shop. If they are surly to too many customers they will close down. If they stay in business then they probably make more right decisions than wrong ones.

Very few clerks or even owners seem to think creatively about sales anymore. Like you suggested, they don not realize you are ready to buy, you just need to see an interesting value.

One shop around here is pretty good and I buy most of my stuff there. I have gone in determined to buy another Glock. They don't have the model I am interested in, but hey, look at what we just got in on consignment. I walked out with a sweet S&W 617 .38 at a really good price. Another shop I walked in pretty sure I was going to buy a HK .45 compact (which they were out of) and walked out with a used SIG P245 for $300 less. The counter guy just took time to find out what I was trying to accomplish, or what other interests I had in guns.

A few minutes of attention and exploration can make a sale. Too many of the shops just want to chat with friends or sell you something and get rid of you.

 

[ColinthePilot]

$8 to make a sure sale? If I were the salesman, I would have said "no problem," taken the $8 out of my wallet after the customer left to even up the register, and maybe discuss reimbursement with the owner later. Even if it cost me $8, worst case is its an hours pay, or a little part of my commission. And I've made a customer happy, which should make the owner happy.

 

[Son of Sam]

As long as I was going that far I'd pull the $8 out of my pocket in front of the customer so he knew it was indeed ME who made the sacrifice for him (not management) and would seek me out for later purchases in the future, hopefully not to con me out of another $8 but because kindness and politeness are a salesman's best tools, aside from knowledge of the product, that is.

It's surprising how more customers seem to know that than salesmen these days, isn't it?

 

[Bubbles]

If it's not a "special" P226 (e.g. Elite, Competition, Navy, etc) then the first number in the price for a used one should have been a 5, not a 6.

 

[22-rimfire]

I know it sounds hard to believe, but sometimes rules are rules when it comes to employee's pricing things.

I'm sure many gun shops hear the same thing over and over again. You may need to sort of prove it to them. From their perspective, you could have probably whipped out a credit card. But I'm surprised they didn't accept that as payment in full regardless of what I'm about to say....

I have made deals that way myself at gunshows. If I say that is all the money I have, then that is all the money I have with me... but is that all the money I have? I don't use ATM machines, so at shows, it really is all the money I have with me and I rarely come back.

I don't know how much guns are marked up but i would assume they bought that pistol in for about $425 if it was marked at $650. call me crazy, but i would much rather make $217 than $0.

I face this issue just about every day. Do I want to make $300 or hold out for my regular price with a $400 margin (as an example)? I can only answer the question based on my mood and my sense of value. Sometimes I will make the deal and other times I won't. If you keep reducing the price of things (in my case-services), then people place no value on your pricing and word gets around. I'm the best at what I do in my area and I have problems discounting at times. But I do it.

 

[Hoppy590]

8$ isnt anything. iv been given more than that worth of free stuff just for buying a gun ( 3 boxes of Brown Bear 7.62X39, a can of Mace, roughly 25-30$ value). clearly that wholesale cost of those items could have been taken off the gun, instead of giving me the free stuff. but if a good shop wants your business, they let you know. these guys clearly dont.

 

[highorder]

If it's not a "special" P226 (e.g. Elite, Competition, Navy, etc) then the first number in the price for a used one should have been a 5, not a 6.

Agreed. Since when is $650 for a used Sig 226 any kind of deal?

Having said that, I would think that any manager would have easily made up the $8 difference for the sale. You dealt with the wrong person.

 

[Guntalk]

I'm reminded of a friend who is a pretty good negotiator. She was trying to get a room at a hotel which was supposed to be sold out, but she knew it really wasn't.

The person she was talking to kept saying no, so Pat asked him, "If there was a room available, would you be able to give it to me?"

The clerk admitted he was not authorized to do that.

Pat asked to speak to someone who had the power to say yes.

"If you can't tell me yes, then I won't accept a 'no' from you."

It's a great line, and a useful way to look at things.

 

[BruceRDucer]

AgainstTheGrane:

Let me put it this way, in hopes that some business person might benefit in some small way.

Kurt answers, such as emphatic NO can sour customer relations. In fact, it has happened to me many times.

So rather than say the business owner was absolutely right or wrong, I would suggest this. In a Scenario like yours, instead of saying NO outright, the businessman should learn to TALK to you a little bit. He can just as easily say NO later.

I think a smart businessman would ask you things like:

"What kind of guns appeal to you?"

"Do you prefer Brand A over Brand B?"

"Would you consider a Lay-Away for a week or so?"

"Could you wait till your next paycheck, and I can discount some accessories worth $8.00 but not the gun itself."

or...."Let me see if I can work with you."

_____________________________________________

The idea is that once the customer is in the store, that's the time to establish a relationship.

I think a smart businessman would do that.

He can also say "NO!". That's when the customer can choose to say NO to doing business there also.

Sometimes people can give you the short shrift one month, and great service the next. Go figger.

/

/

 

[Eric F]

When I worked in a gun store, the owner had a fixed 3% mark up on a $600 gun he is only getting $9 so Yeah I can totally understand why he would say no, however on a used gun........depends on what he paid for it, I dont know sig priced but if it were close to the mark up price and selling 3-5% over I can understand the guys feelings.

 

[bogie]

Tom, what gets me are folks who undo perfectly good negotiations... Few years ago, got a hotel room after a little dicker with the clerk... Down about $20 or so... So, we get in there, and the bedroom lights don't work. Fine. Time to sleep so we can get up early. At checkout, my girlfriend gave them hell about the lights, and demanded a discount. So I think she got about $5 or $10... From the original...

Sigh.

 

[MAKster]

From the store owners perspective why couldn't you just pay $8 more. Anyone willing to pay $695 for a nonessential item like a gun can surely come up with $8 more. Skip lunch or don't buy that sixpack of beer. Clearly the store was not concerned about losing the sale. They are confident that someone else will come along and pay the list price.

 

[jcwit]

Part of it liking to hagle. I always ask if they can do better in price, depending on how they answer makes a difference whether I buy or not. With a real short NO or snotty comeback I'll usually tell them $1.00 would have made the difference between a sale or not. Usually makes me no difference or not because my collection amounts to more than what they have on their table/tables anyway. This pertains to gun shows only.

 

[absolute0]

Most any experienced buisiness person would happily shave 1.5% off an already (IMHO) above market price for a guarenteed quick cash sale. If the shop has the gun already priced to move and a prospective buyer cries short money on an already good price; well then, that's another matter.

Sounds to me like they didn't deserve your business.

 

[OregonJohnny]

I have a gun shop that is a 45-minute drive from me and one that is a 10-minute drive. The 45-minute store ALWAYS bargains with me. If I'm making a trade, they give me more for my trade-in than other shops offer. If I'm straight-up buying a new gun, they'll always drop off 2 or 3% from their sticker (they already have better prices to start with). Or they'll throw in a box or 2 of ammo.

The 10-minute shop sucks in this regard. I'll ask to pay $600 cash for a $629.99 gun and they refuse every single time. So I go to that shop to "try-on" guns and see what fits me. Then I take my money to the 45-minute shop. It might work out pretty close when you figure in the gas money, but I'd much rather give the same amount of cash to a shop willing to make a sale.

 

[zoom6zoom]

I walked out with a sweet S&W 617 .38 at a really good price.

Wow, must have been a rare factory prototype... the 617 is a .22

 

[againstthagrane]

regarding the $650 sig...

it was technically used, but had never been fired.

while i agree that the significance of the $8 could be argued either way.

i was up front with the guy. i told him that i did have the money but that i would have to drive all the way home and get it. i think any business that would make a customer waste $10 in gas AND not discount him $8 on a $700 dollar sale is insane. yeah, they might make that extra $8 on the next guy who comes in and wants to buy that gun, but what about the next 40 guns i buy? i won't buy them from their shop, and THAT, my friend, is where the real mistake is in my opinion. not the immediate gratification of that one sale, but the multiple others they're losing out on.

i've only been into guns for a short time since i'm fairly young, but i've already aquired a pretty cool start to a collection. i'll be honest , almost all of my fun money goes towards guns. i've bought an hk p2000sk, dpms ap4 with millet zoom dot GG&G cantilever quick disconnnect and cav. arms buis, g17, sti trojan, taurus 1911(which i sold due it being the crappiest gun i've ever owned, beretta px4,beretta 90-two,marlin 60, ruger 10/22, and that's just in the past 2 years! i'm on pace to buy 150 guns in the next 30 years, not to mention ammo and range time. THAT is why you give a person $8 off if it'll make them happy. it's not even like i was in the haggling mindset either, i was really in a jam and the guy didn't give a crap. so rather than waste my time driving home and back i just drove 20 minutes up the road to some people who would appreciate someone spending some hard earned money at their establishment

 

[Mr. D]

$8 surely doesn't seem like that much. But, be that as it may, Run&Shoot is right - do a little something for your customers and try to build a loyal customer base. $8 is a cheap price toward a possible second sale down the road, but it'll do a lot towards giving the customer a good opinion of your business if your are easy to work with.

Even if the salesman couldn't mark it down $8, he didn't have to be short or turn-offish in his refusal. And, of course, it would be part of his job to interest you in something you CAN afford at the moment.

~Dale

 

[JohnBT]

"i was really in a jam and the guy didn't give a crap."

Let me see if I understand. You had $695 in your pocket, a ride parked in the lot and more money at home and you think you were in some kind of a jam? I don't see it.

Why didn't you just write a check for the $8 or put on a charge card. Heck, I probably have $8 worth of change in my car. And then there are the 2 c-notes in my driver's license. You never know when you'll find yourself in a real jam. Be prepared.

John

P.S. - "this is the third time i've TRIED to buy something from this place"

Maybe if you had actually bought something from them before they would have worked with you. Hint: Never ask for a favor in front of other customers. Move the discussion over to the side, out of the way.