Stupid question of the week: lube/size/lube again?

[1KPerDay]

I just got a bunch of .45 ACP pills, 200 grain SWCs and 230 grain LRNs. The SWCs are this Lee type: http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/reloading/swc.jpg

And have been tumble lubed with Alox and then sized to .4515" or so.

My question is... do I need to lube them again before loading/shooting? The lube is worn off where the sizer has contacted the "ribs".

The 230 LRNs have a generous lube groove so I assume they'll be fine as is.

 

[rcmodel]

No.

The case would just scrape it off again anyway when you seat them.

rc

 

[1KPerDay]

Then what does the surface lube actually accomplish, if it just gets scraped off anyway?

 

[kevinakaq]

I use a a very light coating of WD40 before sizing and then lightly tumbe lube with "recluse" lube after sizing (mix of alox/paste wax/mineral spirits). Lee does suggest lubing with Alox before and after btw. I would think the post lube is more important than the pre to prevent leading. To much lube and you get alot of smoke which bothers alot of people especially if shooting indoors.

You are going to find many many different opinions on this subject btw.

 

[rcmodel]

Probably nothing.
Traditional cast bullets are sized and lubed in one step.
And that only leaves lube in the groves, not on top of them.

rc

 

[1KPerDay]

Traditional cast bullets are sized and lubed in one step.
And that only leaves lube in the groves, not on top of them.

rc

That's true...

 

[GLOOB]

"Traditional cast bullets" are lubed with "traditional hard lube."

With tumble lube, you're supposed to lube both before and after sizing, is my understanding.

Edit: I knew I read that somewhere. From the instructions:

"You can lube after sizing. However, for best results, we recommend that bullets are re-lubed after sizing to be sure the sized portion is coated with Lee Liquid Alox."

 

[trixter]

""You can lube after sizing. However, for best results, we recommend that bullets are re-lubed after sizing to be sure the sized portion is coated with Lee Liquid Alox.""

That is how I've been doing it for over 2 years and it works fine and I like it. I do not find any evidence that any of it scrapes off while seating the boolit.

 

[david bachelder]

I cast, size then lube. I let the Alox dry then store the bullets for loading.

When I load the bullets I usually wipe the bullet off. I don't like the lube getting in my action. I also don't want it in my sizing die. I do lube the bullets with rcbs#2 and the pad prior to sizing.

My guns do not lead up and theres always plenty of smoke. So the lube is doing it's job. I cast most of my bullets and tumble lube with Alox. Bullets done in this manor are about all I shoot and I've done it that way a good while.

So I respectivly disagree with LEE.

 

[silicosys4]

I have lubed with LLA both before and after sizing, and I have lubed only before sizing. I can not see a difference with leading, so I lube only before sizing for now, and save on lube. I take some manufacturers recommendations with a grain of salt, especially the ones telling me to use their product generously and liberally, then buy some more.
It has worked for me so far, but I will lube twice, both before and after sizing, on any bullet I expect to be seeing magnum velocities.

 

[BBQJOE]

I just started lubing with 1 coat alox, and a second with recluse.
The recluse isn't near as tacky when it dries as is the alox.

 

[GLOOB]

I take some manufacturers recommendations with a grain of salt, especially the ones telling me to use their product generously and liberally, then buy some more.

No one said you had to use MORE lube. Before sizing, just use a third to a half of what u normally would. It doesn't take much to get the bullet thru the sizer. A few drops per pound of bullets, maybe. Then add the rest afterward. Same amount of lube.

 

[rcmodel]

Well, it still seems to me the first coat before sizing is sizing lube.

And the second coat after sizing is bullet lube then??

Why not cut to the chase and lube only once, after sizing?

rc

 

[GLOOB]

Some bullets will gall up the sizer if you don't use lube. BTW my quote from the instructions has a typo. It should say you can lube only once, before sizing, not after. But preferred to lube both before and after.

 

[rcmodel]

It should say you can lube only once, before sizing

Well, that's pretty much what I have been saying all along.

rc

 

[blarby]

Given that lube doesn't actually do anything on the outside of the lube grooves but get smeared on the inside of the case, relubing them after sizing is redundant unless the lube grooves aren't sufficiently filled.

That is how I've been doing it for over 2 years and it works fine and I like it. I do not find any evidence that any of it scrapes off while seating the boolit.

Please seat a few after double lubing and remove them with a kinetic puller. That ring on the inside of the case where the bullet stops ? Thats your second coat of lube.


Once the rifling engages the bullet, the reservoir of lubricant inside the lube grooves is actually put to use- both in coating the rifling (lands) itself- and being forced out into the grooves in the bore.

In the case of LLA- the sticky , goupy , soupy lube job that we frequently see is an attempt to make lube do something it cant do : Lube the bullet from tip to tail, and stay intact once the bullet is seated. Simply put, its a fallacy. At best, its a waste of lube.

Unless the presence of lube on the parts of the bullet that make no contact with the barrel makes you sleep better at night ( the ogive, and the base of bevel base cast bullets ) re-lubing after sizing serves very little actual purpose.

If you are using LLA straight from the bottle and having problems getting it into the lube grooves evenly and sufficiently- try cutting the LLA with mineral spirits by about 50%. This all but ensures a suffient coating during a casual tumble lubing, and is more than sufficient in almost any application I've encountered.

say you can lube only once, before sizing, not after.

Thats what mine say, too.

I just got a bunch of .45 ACP pills, 200 grain SWCs and 230 grain LRNs. The SWCs are this Lee type: http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oading/swc.jpg

Thats about the most even, well applied coat of LLA I've ever seen.

The amount of lube required for it to do its job in your bore is often greatly exaggerated.

There is no such thing as a stupid question- the exception being one you already know the answer to.
When all else fails, consult your caster

 

[Dontkillbill]

I use those in my 45 (lee tumble lube?) and I don't size but I have the good crimp die that tightens the ones up that are a bit wide. No problems with the first 400-500.

 

[kevinakaq]

My thought on the "lube once before sizing" would apply if using alox only. If you were only to lube once, then it must be before sizing to prevent galling etc., and afterwards you would still have Alox in the ribs. My solution to avoid a Alox bath twice is to lube extremly light with wd40 before sizing in place of the Alox which is messy and will just be scraped off the sized portions. A light spray about two seconds long on around 200 bullets, then swirl them around to evenly coat. After sizing do the tumble lube with recluse's recipe or straight Alox and everything is coated - ribs and sized portion. This has worked for me on thousands but ofcourse YMMV.

 

[GLOOB]

Please seat a few after double lubing and remove them with a kinetic puller. That ring on the inside of the case where the bullet stops ? Thats your second coat of lube.

**shrug** Seems like a good place to have some lube. I imagine it gets blown out with the bullet, since I have never seen that ring in any of my empties!

 

[jr_roosa]

I imagine it gets blown out with the bullet, since I have never seen that ring in any of my empties!

That's the lovely smoke and soot that makes people at the range ask me if I'm shooting black powder in my 1911.

One coat before sizing is enough for me.

Of course the manufacturer wants you to use a second coat. Sells more lube.

Read your shampoo instructions sometime. "Lather rinse repeat" but nobody washes their hair twice.

J.

 

[rsrocket1]

I lube/size/lube using 45/45/10. The lube process consists of putting about 300 boolits in a 1 gallon ziplock bag, drizzling a small amount of the lube which had been preheated in a sink of hot water so it's really thin.
Massage the boolits in the bag (no need to bang them around in a tub or pour them between containers).
Size if necessary. Did you try loading them without sizing? My TL452-230-TC's shoot great right out of the molds. Just drop 'em, lube 'em, load and shoot!

The second lube should use as little lube as possible. I usually squirt a half teaspoon at most of oderless mineral spirits into the bag of sized bullets and massage again with no added lube. There is usually enough excess lube on the nose and base of the bullet to spread the stuff over the important parts. Drying takes a couple of hours outdoors or less than 1/2 hour outdoors with a fan blowing on it or overnight in the garage.

More Alox = more smoke not better lubrication. Fun at an outdoor range if that's what you enjoy. Sometimes I purposely overlube when I load with a full house Power Pistol load. Lots of flame, blast and smoke.

 

[1KPerDay]

When all else fails, consult your caster

I figured I'd bothered you enough.

I was just curious because the first batch of these from last year, the ones that shoot so well in my DW1911, didn't appear to have been sized, and they have lube evenly applied. I assume they were as-cast and then lubed. I'm wondering now if these new sized .451ish ones will cause some leading... and if I made a mistake by asking for them to be sized rather than leaving them as-cast. But I did ask, so it's my problem (if it even is a problem).

It's probably a non-issue.

I was also curious about lubing after casting with this type of bullet (without an obvious lube groove like the "normal" type of cast bullet) so I just thought I'd ask.

I have a pot and ladle and some molds, and have been trying to source lead (I got 35 lbs of wheel weight ingots)... I even have an old Lyman lubrisizer. It just takes me a while to find time to do stuff like this. Life is full.