Tactics of living in gun control zones

[FinnComm]

I will give these guys credit - the managed to get armaments that are totally prohibited in France (AK47s and RPGs according to the news).

How about you just stop spreading misinformation.

Did you bother to check the links I posted above? I guess not.

Semi-auto rifles are not "totally prohibited" in France. They are regulated, yes, "totally prohibited", no.

 

[mbt2001]

In leadsounsels defense, here (in the US) the news is reporting that the hostiles had fully auto AK47, body armor, and an RPG.

It might be because of their agenda, or something, but that is what they are saying. Whether it is true or not, is another factor all together.

 

[boom boom]

Leadcounsel,
Not really counting on a bookbag as a defense to pistol rounds without the bullet resistant panel. I am also a big fan of the box'o truth . Did consider soft body armor when a specific problematic individual was involved but even there rifles and shotgun slugs can overcome soft body armor. Agree that the best situation is to flee but sometimes that is just not possible.

In extremis, it is a weapon just like a thrown chair, fire extinguisher, etc. If an armed intruder comes into the class then chaos is your best bet to allow some if not all to escape. A person blazing away with gunfire is not seeking hostages but to kill. IN such a situation you have to use what you have--I have advised students to throw computers, books, cell phones, etc. at a gunmen. What you have to do in such situations is go off the killers' script to create some opening for advantageous action.

 

[leadcounsel]

Well technically fully auto AK47s and RPGs aren't "totally prohibited" in the USA either but for all intents and purposes they ARE. Haven't seen any at the range myself (except in the military).

The POINT of this thread is not a dissertation of France's gun laws. As I've repeatedly stated. I'm not a France gun law attorney nor specialist, and frankly care little about reading 47 pages of France gun laws intricacies - I have a general idea from brief reading of various sources/articles. Your 47 page legal-ese was of zero interest or use because it would take an afternoon to decipher the nonsense categories and whatnot.

But according to many news outlets, including this article from Bloomberg.com -
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-...-rise-of-banned-weapons-of-war-in-france.html

The masked, black-clad killers whose Paris attack on the offices of Charlie Hebdo today took 12 lives were carrying Kalashnikov AK-47 assault rifles. The scary thing in France, where gun-control laws are far stricter than in the U.S., is that their weapons choice wasn’t surprising.

Semi-automatic and automatic firearms are banned, but that hasn’t stopped drug dealers and terrorists from acquiring them in increasing numbers, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a state body created in 2003 by then-Interior Minister and later President Nicolas Sarkozy. The numbers of illegal weapons in France have increased by double digits for years, the body says.

“The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms,”

I can generally say, with a high level of certainty, however, that terrorists with fully auto AKs and RPG and also molotov cocktails (all as reported by the news) did NOT acquire these legally given the STRICT France gun and weapon laws. Even if these are were semi-auto AKs the jest of the point remains - and I'd be willing to bet there are not too many LEGALLY owned AKs in all of France... given the difficulty in acquiring them.

It's almost like some folks here purposefully misread postings just to take snipe shots at others... good grief.

Let's keep this on topic for the usefulness of the discussion. Traveling and living in relatively gun free areas of the world. Anyone add soft armor to their inventory where legal?

I think it's worth noting that immediately following a terrorist attack and manhunt in the city, folks should be on high alert. Yet many hostages were taken and killed the very next day. They would be alive probably if they had heeded a little more situational awareness. When a few terrorists are on the loose in your city, you might want to be a little more vigalent in your safety.

 

[leadcounsel]

Leadcounsel,
Not really counting on a bookbag as a defense to pistol rounds without the bullet resistant panel. I am also a big fan of the box'o truth . Did consider soft body armor when a specific problematic individual was involved but even there rifles and shotgun slugs can overcome soft body armor. Agree that the best situation is to flee but sometimes that is just not possible.

In extremis, it is a weapon just like a thrown chair, fire extinguisher, etc. If an armed intruder comes into the class then chaos is your best bet to allow some if not all to escape. A person blazing away with gunfire is not seeking hostages but to kill. IN such a situation you have to use what you have--I have advised students to throw computers, books, cell phones, etc. at a gunmen. What you have to do in such situations is go off the killers' script to create some opening for advantageous action.

Any longgun is going to present a serious problem for certain as they can punch through a lot of materials... but keep in mind a soft vest can defeat 12 gauge buck shot.

Movement and distance and barriers are a top choice for defense against armed individual(s).

 

[GEM]

The best solution for the classroom is to allow carry of firearms by appropriate individuals. While gunmen have been disarmed and swarmed at times, in other instances the casualty count is enormous. Someone who picks the classroom with some sense of what would happen can easily avoid the flying IPAD of death.

If one does argue for campus carry, as I have - then if you do such - you have the moral responsibility to get significant training.

When a shooter moves from room to room, there is no reason why the next set of rooms cannot be prepared with more than throwing things.

 

[pezo]

How about this. What if one of those folks who's window was in view of the terrorist had a bolt action rifle they were accurate with? Instead of grabbing a phone camera/video. I think an accurate rifle and some distance would have also quickly ended the Hollywood shooter.

 

[xXxplosive]

OC Spray...............a lot.

 

[HighExpert]

Many are concerned if a CCW would have made a difference. I say yes in two ways. Most of these attacks take place in gun free zones because the target is softer. Harden the target with more concealed weapons and some will think twice. Point your AK one direction and someone will be glad to shoot you in the back. Might even make a terrorist a little paranoid.

 

[Trent]

Uhh... you're going to stop and put in earplugs if you find yourself in a sudden life or death situation?!??

 

[Trent]

Why waste 4 seconds if you have the drop on them *right now* - that's 4 seconds for the situation to change or more people to die.

If you're defending life (yours or anothers') screw the hearing protection.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Why waste 4 seconds if you have the drop on them *right now* - that's 4 seconds for the situation to change or more people to die.

If you're defending life (yours or anothers') screw the hearing protection.

Well, ya know, a real operator will make up those 4 seconds by bracing his pistol on his solid cover and surprise-ambushing them, methodically dropping each armored thug one at a time with surgically precise shots to unprotected areas.

(Not that there is anyone on this board who envisions himself lighting a cigar after delivering a coupe de grace to the baddest of the bad guys, then slowly swaggering away whilst tossing a hand grenade behind him to finish off the wounded, but making sure to not look back at the explosion as the tips of the flames gently lick his posterior)

 

[230RN]

My position, summed up, from 6 years ago on a now-defunct board:

Kind of an irrelevant situation for me. I don't have any offspring who don't have CCWs. But I've thought of being in the mall when something goes down. I'm 70, not brave, but if at all possible*, I would at least deliver suppressive fire with my regular carry piece.

And if I got a hit, so much the better.

I might save someone younger than myself who has their whole life ahead of them.

Not braggadacio, not bravado, not chest-thumping (I'd cough too much), not misplaced heroism, just the way I reasoned it out.

----
* Positive ID that he's shooting at others, reasonable backstop, nobody around me when he turned his attention to me. Wouldn't even need a clear shot. Even if I bounced some near him, he'd either duck or start shooting at me instead of others.

I am now 76. My position has not changed: "I might save someone younger than myself who has their whole life ahead of them."

And at the time, I wasn't even using a cane very much.

Terry, 230RN

(Not directly on point to the OP, but the thread certainly touches on being armed here and there.)