Talk me out of the Redding National Match set (308)

[762NATO]

I don't really mean that. But a very experienced shooter (former military sniper, accomplished match shooter, older gentleman) has all but convinced me to purchase the Redding Nat'l Match set of reloading dies for my M1A. Now, I'm not shooting matches, and my M1A is nowhere near match grade (stock M1A Scout). But since it is my only high power rifle, I do hunt with it (though I mostly hunt with a muzzleloader, even in rifle season) and I do want my ammo to be as accurate as reasonably expected. There will also be a bolt gun in .308 in my future, so there will be a gun "worthy" of precisely loaded custom ammunition.

I realize there is much more to precise reloading than just a nice set of dies. But in the end, I am wondering if high price of this die set is justified vs Redding's own standard dies (non competition), or other "standard" dies such as RCBS, Lyman, Hornady (although Hornady is new to the reloading world).

I'm really looking for people who have worked extensively with these die sets as well as others. I've seen plenty of people with Lee dies claim they have out-grouped those using Redding or Forster, etc dies. This really means little to me, b/c there are too many variables to consider, including someone with sucky technique and a set of Redding dies. But, I would heavily consider someone who used Redding Competition dies faithfully for years and then tried out Lee dies and said they didn't see a whole lot of difference.

Thanks

 

[Walkalong]

Why? It's good stuff. So is the Forster set. Casual plinking with an average rifle? Save your money.

 

[blarby]

I cant bring it in my heart to talk someone out of a quality tool that they want.

Thats my wifes' job

 

[EddieNFL]

Thats my wifes' job

Think I married her sister...or at least a cousin.

Buy the Redding.

 

[jaguarxk120]

OK go out and buy the cheaper die set, but mark my words you will soon be in the position to buy, have, get a really nice Remington, Winchester, Ruger, or Savage bolt gun that can take advantage of the premium die set.

And if you come across a Kimber or Cooper -- you would use nothing but the finest tooling to reload for them.

 

[JC98]

I currently use Lee dies and have been looking at the Redding and Forster sets as a replacement. Mainly for the seating dies. I don't shoot competition or anything but like to get the best accuracy possible. Rifle is a Savage mainly used for deer and the occasional coyote. 5-300 yards.

 

[Slamfire]

More than “precision” dies or anything else, what you need is a small base die and a cartridge headspace gage.

On top of that Redding small base die is a reamer cut chamber gage, made by Gene Barnett.




This is a Wilson gage, works fine but only tells length. Which is half of the story, width being equally important for function and safety in these mechanisms.




The distance between Go and No Go is this ledge. You will never size your cases between these ledges by following the advice given with dies of sizing “to the shell holder and add a quarter turn”.



The fixation on small based dies is a safety consideration. All gas guns with free floating firing pins have slamfired given a sensitive enough primer. The unfortunate thing with M1 Carbines/Mini 14’s/Garands/M1a’s is that they will also slamfire out of battery, given a sensitive enough primer.

The greatest risk of an out of battery slamfire comes with a sensitive primer (Federal match are the most slamfiring primer on the market) and a tight or long case.

However, out of battery slamfires have also occurred with mil spec primers in tight or long cases. The following pictures are from an out of battery slamfire that occurred when the owner put in, he said inadequately sized military brass, in the chamber and tripped the bolt. He was using CCI #34 primers.







Two things here, never put a round in the chamber and drop the bolt. Always feed rounds from the magazine or clip as the little extra friction of stripping a round from the magazine slows the bolt down.

Secondly, when a tight or long case stops the bolt before cam down, which is right here, that free floating firing pin is rebounding off the primer at its highest forward velocity, and the lugs are not engaged. Given a sensitive primer, maybe you can figure out what will happen. The bottom line is that you do not want this mechanism crush fitting cases to the chamber.



You will greatly reduce your chances of a slamfire, in battery or out of battery, if you size the case below chamber dimensions (think small base and case gage) and use the least sensitive primer you can find. (CCI #34 or Tula 7.62) Of course you don't want a high primer in any mechanism.

As for dies I have used, I used to use Lee, Bonanza benchrest (broke too many spindles), currently I am using an RCBS small base, when that wears out I will use that Redding small base die. My experience I have not found any difference between case neck run out between brands. I have found a greater difference in case neck run out when I don’t wipe the lube off the case neck, than between dies, when I do wipe the lube off the case neck.

After busting a handfull of Bonanza bench rest spindles, I decided the way to go was with a stouter decapping spindle. RCBS is very stout and the die works fine.

I love the Bonanza benchrest micrometer seating die. Everyone needs one. That is the only benchrest die I will recommend you buy.

 

[762NATO]

Thanks for the informative post, Slamfire. Small base dies were suggested to me before. I've done quite a lot of reading on them and have come to the conclusion that they are only necessary for chambers that require them. In other words, just because a gun is an autoloader does not mean a small base die is automatically required, though one might be for a particularly tight chamber. That being said, I do hear and understand your rational for being on the safe side with guns utilizing free-floating firing pins, especially ones that have the potential to slamfire out of battery like the Garand or M1A.

I have not experienced any issues with any commercial or mil surplus ammo with my M1A. In fact, before I even fired my M1A for the first time, I was actually a little afraid to rack one in the chamber because of all I have read regarding slamfires. Interestingly, I have never even seen an automatically chambered round out of my gun exhibit the "dimpled primer" I have read so much about. I'm not sure why that's the case. Regardless, I have CCI #34 primers on hand and that is what I plan to use once I start reloading for my M1A.

This may be a bad assumption, but it seems logical to test the cartridges I make by placing them in the case gage, and also placing them in the chamber itself. If there's any resistance when placing them in the chamber, I think that would be a good indication that a small base die may be required.

 

[FROGO207]

With a lot of those that reload this round for those particular firearms saying they need to use a small base die why would you go ahead and get a regular die set first if the greater chance is you will need to upgrade almost immediately?? I would either borrow a set of regular dies to try or get a set of Lee RGB dies and a shellholder as this would be the most inexpensive option if buying dies. I would do it this way for my firearm if this was the only way I was able to test fit of a finished reload.YMMV

 

[popper]

Unless you're headed to camp perry, save your money. I use the RCBS AR -308 die (small base - .001 smaller diameter - taper crimper), ~ 7-8 reloads on the same brass. My DPMS 308 has about the same quality bbl as yours (actually quite good). You will need a really high quality bolt gun to see any difference in die as well as buying very premium bullets and doing neck turning, etc.

 

[cfullgraf]

...has all but convinced me to purchase the Redding Nat'l Match set of reloading dies for my M1A.

For cartridges where I change bullet frequently, I like the micrometer adjuster on the seating die. I can record the setting and return to that setting quickly when I change bullets.

But, for my M1, M1A or AR-15 loads, i have conventional seater stems. I rarely change bullets with those so I rarely have to move the adjuster stem.

I like Redding dies, they are generally my reloading die of choice.

Hornady has a reasonably priced system for getting a micrometer seating stem on their seater dies if Redding or Forster are a bit too expensive.

Recently, I have been experimenting with Redding bushing dies to improve the concentricity of the case mouths.

 

[Otto]

The only thing special about Reddings Nat'l Match set is the Competition Seater. The sizing die is a standard FL sizer.

I'd rather have a Type S full length sizer instead, it gives much better control of the neck tension and doesn't over work the brass.
It comes with a Competition Seater as well.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/271533/redding-type-s-match-bushing-2-die-set-308-winchester