Talk of Violence Amongst Radical Hispanic Activists

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Today you'll find that Catholicism is strongest in precisely the communities fearmongers are attacking.
Perhaps that is because South and Central America were converted by the Portuguese and Spanish, and it is people from one of those locations (Mexico)that make up the majority of illegal immigrants?

Grasp at straws and grab whatever gains sympathy? Hey umm..they are predominantly Catholic, so all catholic Americans should support them. Yeah sure.

The Jews were persecuted heavily throughout the world many times over in history. They make up a small percent of the total population in America, yet disproportionaly hold many positions of power they have earned by rising through the ranks and being successful through sacrifice. You do not hear them complaining or trying to gain sympathy in American politics even though they are definately a minority.
Arguably they are quite prejudice themselves, sticking together closely as a community, and having a unique culture most outsiders are kept out of. I have known some that were entirely banished from thier families, and no longer considered a part of the family for marrying non-jews.
However I am sure they will just be lumped into the "white" catagory like most other American settlers because they are successful and don't wish to be seen as persecuted to gain handouts, because they are already doing quite well of thier own accord.

Irish were persecuted in America as they were immigrating (legaly) and banding together in a unique culture. They were not a majority of immigrants, but stood out in people's minds at the time because they formed a very distinct community that threatened other Americans. However as they applied themselves and many new types of immigrants came to America, and Irish Immigration virtualy stopped, they suddenly found themselves in charge of the newest Immigrant groups of Italian and Slavic people. So they assimilated into mainstream America and no longer were seperate, and instead became "white".
However this will not happen with Hispanic/Latinos because there is no future stop of Hispanic/Latino immigration, and a large immigration of others. It is mainly Mexicans/Latinos, with all future indications pointing to the same thing down the road. So they remain united, distinct, and seperate.

Hispanics could easily be classed as white and join the rank and file of other Americans, giving up any special 'minority' status and percieved persecution if they wished to apply and integrate. Italians, especialy Sicilians look very much like Mexicans, partialy because Sicily was conquered and changed hands so many times that it is a huge mixing pot just like Mexico. Yet they are considered "White". Spaniards from Spain are "white". However Chicanos are very ethnicly sensitive and racist so that is not going to happen. If a hispanic candidate runs for office against a non hispanic, regardless of policies, the hispanic community largely votes for the hispanic. We know it, politicians know it. Is that not racist? When speaking in Spanish and reminding constituents of your heritage is more important and gets bigger cheers than the policies spoken of, does that not show the politicians know it?
 
a lot of the Hispanics from South of Mexico

I have talked to have a great deal of resentment for the way immigrants are treated in Mexico.

These guys
http://www.splcenter.org/

Do their level best to whip up a frenzy about anti illegal folks being rascist, it helps with their fund raising.
 
Perhaps that is because South and Central America were converted by the Portuguese and Spanish, and it is people from one of those locations (Mexico)that make up the majority of illegal immigrants?
Um, precisely, yes. Bringing up KKK antipathy to the Papists only highlights the commonality of bigotry - today that feeling has simply been transferred onto the newest kids on the block, who are also Catholic.

Grasp at straws and grab whatever gains sympathy? Hey umm..they are predominantly Catholic, so all catholic Americans should support them. Yeah sure.
Nothing I said even vaguely resembles that. So...

The Jews were persecuted heavily throughout the world many times over in history. They make up a small percent of the total population in America, yet disproportionaly hold many positions of power they have earned by rising through the ranks and being successful through sacrifice. You do not hear them complaining or trying to gain sympathy in American politics even though they are definately a minority.
You've answered your own argument - being a 'minority' isn't the issue. Relative privilege is.

Anti-Semitism is, of course, live and well - but Jewish Americans aren't continually discriminated against (unless you use the Presidential measure) in education, law or economics. They have been (for the most part) integrated into the larger society.

Irish were persecuted in America as they were immigrating (legaly) and banding together in a unique culture.
Right, 150 years ago, the Irish were the "Mexican vermin" of today - I refered to that, in fact.

They integrated, and as such there exists little or no relevant bias against them.

Hispanics could easily be classed as white and join the rank and file of other Americans, giving up any special 'minority' status and percieved persecution if they wished to apply and integrate.

Right, anyone who faces discrimination, bigotry, victimization, whatever may come is merely asking for it. It's their choice.

It's kind of like how homosexuals want to be beaten and disowned and such, right? They choose their place.

(One wonders if this also applies to white people complaining about affirmative action?)
 
Isolated incidents do occur. But there is no systemic bias against any of the groups you've referred to
May we have a contemporary example of such systemic bias?
 
Sure.

What are the incarceration rates of black Americans, white Americans and Hispanic Americans.

Ditto median income, educational attainment, health care access, neighborhood services.

Why do women make less than men for the same jobs?

Are there any cases of racial profiling against white drivers? Any findings of 'driving while white'?

To go with the political tip - why are the vast majority of our elected representatives white men, when white men are a minority of the population?
 
What are the incarceration rates of black Americans, white Americans and Hispanic Americans.

Ditto median income, educational attainment, health care access, neighborhood services.

Why do women make less than men for the same jobs?

Are there any cases of racial profiling against white drivers? Any findings of 'driving while white'?

To go with the political tip - why are the vast majority of our elected representatives white men, when white men are a minority of the population?

In a perfect world, according to your theory, the reason for disparities must always be discrimination--is that right? Whether you know it or not you are an adherent of what I call demographic socialism.

Meanwhile, try answering your own questions. Honestly.
 
You're right - either discrimination is in play (though I never said it was the sole issue or even the primary issue) or there's another reason completely. But what are these reasons?

Why do some racial and ethnic groups consistently score lower on standardized testing?
- is the test biased?
- is economic class a prime issue (ie can peformance be isolated by class from ethnicity)(and depending on the answer, does this meet any standard of institutional discrimination)?
- is it an issue with the localized educational system (sub-question: might this not be a form of discrimination itself)?
- or are minorities simply not as 'smart'?

Why are some racial and ethnic groups more likely to be criminalized?
- are crime stats rigged?
- is it a question of economics (sub-question: what's the relationship between 'crime' and class - both in terms of actual crime and the definition of crime)?
- is it a question of bigotry by the policing authority (sub-questions relating to the makeup of the force and government itself)?
- are some racial and ethnic groups simply 'bad', more prone to commit 'crimes'?

etc. etc. etc.
 
You realize that 'Mexicans' are 'the Indians' of Mexico, right?

The strain of cracker Castilian blood that conquered and ruled has little presence in the general population.
Wrong. Very wrong. I challenge you to locate Mexican citizens who are completely Indio, 100%. Good luck.
Now, the challenge they laid is "European man go home to Europe" OK, YOU TOO! Even the name of language is European - check geographic location of Spain.
Every Mexican/Hispanic/Latino(where does THAT come from, are they claiming to be Roman? Last place Latin was spoken as a language.) who is NOT 100% Indio needs to go BACK to Spain, where they came from.
What, they were born here, so that means they are natives? ME TOO, so back off MY land. If I am native, by their own definition, (they made the argument over heritage, not me!), then by their own definition, I belong here!
They want to go back only as far as the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe, stating thier land was "stolen". Now, it was TAKEN BY FORCE OF ARMS." Get it right.
But wait - we also PAID for some of it - Gadsen Purchase. Sorry, no refunds after 100 years!
And, who owned before the Mexican government took the land by force?!? maybe even the Indios need to leave...
As fior Aztlan, etc, I see them in prison, their diatribe is VERY anti anyone who is not Hispanic, u.e., no whites, blacks, Chinese, etc. In their world, in their own words, non Hispanics will not be allowed to own land, vote, be in the military, governement, police forces, etc...oddly similar to the way MEXICO treats non citizens within it's own borders.
It's funny how in every one of these stories, the white man was eminently qualified - perhaps even over-qualified - while the black person wasn't.
Where did blacks come into a debate over the Reconquista? They should be worried, however, as they are also "enemies of the Hispanic people", as defined by Aztlan propoganda. And, as another horrible anecdote, I was indeed told I shouldn't bother applying for the police department in my home town several years ago, as I was not a black female. There can be NO impugning my abilites or qualifications - we never GOT that far. This was an off the record comment from a recruiter.
And last, the obligatory statement - I work with many people of other ethnicities, and even though some people reading these statements will automatically assume I am a racist pig, (though the exact same statements from peoples of other races are NOT considered racist), I have many that I trust and respect who happen to be black, hispanic, asian, etc. I don't care about skin color, racial background, etc. I do care about unscrupulous peoples using thier ethnicity to take away my rights, my property, my home. Then I tend to get irritated...
 
Oh, wooderson, here are those stats you wanted...http://www.azcorrections.gov/adc/reports/CAG/CAGDec06.pdf

For those who don't want to click - December 2006 stats for Arizona Department of Corrections, inmate ethinicity.

Caucasion - 42.8%
Hispanic - 37.7%
African-Amrican 13%.

Discrimination, discrimination, so many whites in prison MUST mean caucasions are being discriminated against! Whaddya mean I can't say that - then why can the Leftist LIEberals say it?
 
What are the incarceration rates of black Americans, white Americans and Hispanic Americans.

What a friggin joke. I laugh every time I see this thrown out. Its the hail mary pass for those with rose colored glasses.

I can PROMISE you this. As long as people like you give reasons to minorities to lay blame everywhere but themselves, they will remain in the state that they are in. Its that simple.
 
Um, Armored Man...

Oh, wooderson, here are those stats you wanted...http://www.azcorrections.gov/adc/rep...G/CAGDec06.pdf
Excellent, incarceration stats.

Now for population:
White persons, percent, 2005 (a) 87.4%
Black persons, percent, 2005 (a) 3.6%
American Indian, percent, 2005 (a) 5.1%
Asian persons, percent, 2005 (a)
Asian persons, percent, 2005 (a) 2.2%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2005 (b) 28.5%
White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2005 60.4%

So for Arizona, at least, you've shown that African Americans are incarcerated at roughly 400% of their population incidence, Latino Americans at ~133%, and whites at, what, 75%.

That was a real zing on your part, dude...
 
Wooderson,

Were Colt and Browning just privileged white guys milking The System?

And why O why must all social and economic analysis break things down by race and ethnicity and gender? Why is "equality" always the goal for leftists? (or its bastard stepchild, "diversity?")

Who do we care what the breakdowns are at this stage of our history? Why not take the radical step of dealing with each person as an individual and let race, ethnicity, and gender be damned?
 
Wrong. Very wrong. I challenge you to locate Mexican citizens who are completely Indio, 100%. Good luck.
Nor did I say they were - I said they were 'the Indians' of Mexico. The average Mexican citizen is not a Castilian by blood. ('White' persons in Latin and South America have traditionally retained power and influence over the mestizo and indigenous populations).

Now, the challenge they laid is "European man go home to Europe" OK, YOU TOO! Even the name of language is European - check geographic location of Spain.
Castilian Spanish and Mexican Spanish diverge greatly on one point: Mexican Spanish heavily incorporates the sounds of the indigenous cultures (primarily Aztec).

It's much like American dialects (yes, 'Ebonics') - native tongues introduced into the dominant language in order to resist one's conqueror (or invader, as far as Spain/Mexico go).

They want to go back only as far as the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe, stating thier land was "stolen". Now, it was TAKEN BY FORCE OF ARMS." Get it right.
Ah, glad to see you've gone from your misinformation back to the hordes just raging to take away the American Southwest.

Who are "they"? What are their numbers? What actions have they taken?
As a genuine honkie living in the American Southwest, what should make me fearful of the coming invasion, rather than finding it laughable?

Where's the facts, man?
 
Median household income as of 2005: W: $48,554 B: $30,858 H: $35,967
% of total welfare recipients: W: 38.8% B: 37.2% H: 17.8%.

educational attainment
Well, my GI bill and Pell grant gave me a free ride at WCTC. Believe it or not military service does have its perks.

health care access
Same as the rest of the population. Last time I checked, the city didn't offer a super secret whitey HMO.

neighborhood services
Same as above.

Are there any cases of racial profiling against white drivers? Any findings of 'driving while white'?

Another great argument, as any cases of discrimination against others will be labeled as anecdotal. But yes, there are plenty of cases of DWP&W.

To go with the political tip - why are the vast majority of our elected representatives white men, when white men are a minority of the population?

Perhaps because caucasians constitute 82% of the population?
 
Were Colt and Browning just privileged white guys milking The System?
Were they privileged white guys? Yes, certainly - in their time (moreso for Colt), had they been anything but white men they could never have hoped to be 'Colt and Browning.' That possibility didn't exist for others.

Were some even more privileged? Yes.

Were they milking 'The System'? Depends on what you mean. Were they benefactors of the state's largesse? Absolutely, as were many 'great inventors' (Edison most of all). Did they accomplish something and provide wonderful objects for my continued use? Sure.

And why O why must all social and economic analysis break things down by race and ethnicity and gender? Why is "equality" always the goal for leftists?
I dunno, it's that odd concept of all men being created equal, the basic democratic endgame.

Why is 'inequality' preferable? Why shouldn't we strive to eliminate discrimination?
 
Now for population:
White persons, percent, 2005 (a) 87.4%
Black persons, percent, 2005 (a) 3.6%
American Indian, percent, 2005 (a) 5.1%
Asian persons, percent, 2005 (a)
Asian persons, percent, 2005 (a) 2.2%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2005 (b) 28.5%
White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2005 60.4%

Of the local census which only counts legal citizens, however the incarceration statistics do use illegal immigrants in thier data on hispanics.

So technicaly there is a much lower total of "white" and a higher total of Hispanics than is gathered through legal census/survey data.

The prison population however cannot pick and choose whether it registers for the data gathered, nor is it limited to legal citizen statistics, so data gathered in prison statistics is more accurate.

However if you choose blacks, they suddenly become highly disproportionately incarcerated, but I would venture that has more to do with a chosen culture of hip hop, drug dealing, and/or a gang lifestyle by a large number, and tolerance or unwillingness to challenge them by most others of thier community than because they are specificly persecuted in modern society. In fact most public, and private business policies and affirmative actions etc favor thier success, so there is only so much that can be done in the form of handouts, and cuts to the front of the educational/employment line to encourage a change of lifestyle, before they have to choose a different lifestyle, and be intolerant of others who continue a self destructive lifestyle in thier community, or continue down a bad path.
 
Well, my GI bill and Pell grant gave me a free ride at WCTC. Believe it or not military service does have its perks.
Which is a good out to start with - but basically assumes that everyone should be willing to die for nothing in search of a college grant.

Same as the rest of the population. Last time I checked, the city didn't offer a super secret whitey HMO.
Except that health care is tied closely to income - and, as your figures show, whites earn a great deal more.

Same as above.
So South Central and Beverly Hills get the same fire response times? Same parks budget? Schools are the same in Highland Park and Oak Cliff (Dallas)?

You really believe that?

Another great argument, as any cases of discrimination against others will be labeled as anecdotal. But yes, there are plenty of cases of DWP&W.
What are they, then? Any civil rights indictments? Who was in charge of persecuting whites on this one?

Perhaps because caucasians constitute 82% of the population?
White men is what I said. (And Caucasians are closer to 75%)
The male/female split is 85/15.

In the most diverse Congress in history, African-Americans are still under-represented (in the Senate especially) as are Latino citizens.
 
Ah, no zing at ALL, dude, as I know what these guys are in for, you don't and will never know. Probably couldn't handle it, anyway.
We have whole UNITS of Mexican Nationals, which doesn't much enter into your equations, does it? I have met very, very few inmates in my career who didn't deserve to be there, by conviction. One white, one hispanic, IIRC.
Maybe if the INDIVIDUALS took personal responsability for thier actions, and did not BREAK THE LAW, they might not be IN prison! As for thier color and ethnicity, I cannot say this loud enough - there are only two colors in prison - brown and orange. They put themsleves there, we didn't go out saying, "Let's get more black inmates, we're running low"...even though they only make up 13% of the prison population...
 
However if you choose blacks, they suddenly become highly disproportionately incarcerated, but I would venture that has more to do with a chosen culture of hip hop, drug dealing, and/or a gang lifestyle by a large number, and tolerance or unwillingness to challenge them by most others of thier community than because they are specificly persecuted in modern society.

So you choose the final answer to that question: "some racial or ethnic groups simply commit more crime."
 
Ah, no zing at ALL, dude, as I know what these guys are in for, you don't and will never know. Probably couldn't handle it, anyway.
What they're 'in for' is irrelevant.

You wanted to prove that Arizona incarceration is equitable as shown by 'these statistics that say more white people get locked up!' Except they really showed that incarceration is inconsistent with the actual population makeup, as I suggested in the first place.


(and, to the other guy, actually, demographic studies also account for illegal populations - not that you've bothered to provide numbers there. Guess we could just accept your word.)
 
or are minorities simply not as 'smart'?

The income of Jews in America is, per capita, higher than any other ethnic group, are you suggesting that there is a legal bias that favors them?

In the most diverse Congress in history, African-Americans are still under-represented (in the Senate especially) as are Latino citizens

Under-represented? Is it written in stone that the make-up of a body must comform exactly to the percentages of people in the general population? Can I claim discrimination because whites are under-represented in the NBA?

If govt hiring standards are giving extra weight to minorities because they're minorities then that is de facto discrimination against whites.
 
The problem with everything I've seen here is people wishing to turn this into an evil white man vs. give me statistics vs. that's anecdotal, etc. etc.

Look, there are Hispanics within the radical community who wish to do violence.

There are those that wish to "breed out" white people.

And there are those that wish to go to Mexico and fix the problems so they can leave our gringo asses alone.

The last opinion, I can agree with. The two former I hate about as much as possible.

And wooderson, listen to longeyes. He is suggesting that we don't consider race at all, and instead treat people as individuals. He is suggesting true colorblindness. How can you argue with that?

As for the content of the article, and what it has to say, acknowledge it for what it is. Don't respond with, "Oh yeah, well these guys said the MM are racists, or "What about the KKK?"

We all know the KKK, White Supremacists, etc. are racists, and what some guy said about an organization set to go over a million if the current projections hold up fairly soon that espouses no racism, and involves that many people you can't believe.

Simply realize that there are people that advocate violence, against white people who are within the Hispanic community. Don't sugarcoat it, or point out racists amongst the whites. We know about white racism.

I'm trying to tell you a little bit about Hispanic racism.
 
Quote:
And why O why must all social and economic analysis break things down by race and ethnicity and gender? Why is "equality" always the goal for leftists?

I dunno, it's that odd concept of all men being created equal, the basic democratic endgame.

Why is 'inequality' preferable? Why shouldn't we strive to eliminate discrimination?

All men (persons) indeed, not all groups.

Equality under the law (or in the eyes of any or no diety) does not logically infer, imply or even suggest that "equality of outcomes" is possible. It has nothing to do with the "endgame", it's all about an equal shot from wherever fate has you start out.

Especially not when "equality of outcome" is so stupidly tied to "race".

It isn't about letting any group "catch up", it's about allowing any one individual to overcome their situation to the best of that individual's ability. The codecil is that by maximizing his potential, given the historic-political realities of the time, that individual's kids will be in a position to do the same and improve their lot even more.

May we never live in a land where one man's success is seen as failure because a bunch of strangers who happen to share the same color don't work as hard and/or have as good luck. That land is one of denial of reality.
 
So South Central and Beverly Hills get the same fire response times? Same parks budget? Schools are the same in Highland Park and Oak Cliff (Dallas)?

You really believe that?

Well yes, when you pick extremes, and then go under the stereotypical pretense that no minorities live in more affluent areas, I suppose I'd have to agree with your views.

Except that health care is tied closely to income - and, as your figures show, whites earn a great deal more.

Yet in 2002 I pulled in barely $25,000 as a Rent-a-cop, and carried health insurance for myself and my wife. If it's a priority for you, you can do it.

Which is a good out to start with - but basically assumes that everyone should be willing to die for nothing in search of a college grant.

No, it assumes that you should be willing to do something in exchange for said services. Again, if it is a priority in your life it is attainable.
 
It has nothing to do with the "endgame", it's all about an equal shot from wherever fate has you start out

Ok, so if a person is born handicapped should the govt institute quotas in professional sports because all of the heavy presence of excellent genetics among the athletes?

How do you help someone achieve their maximum potential when you tell them they don't have to perform to the same levels as those other people do for the same task?
 
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