Talked to Jerry Ahern at Detonics USA yesterday

[nextjoe]

According to Jerry, new CombatMasters should be in production around September or October. The guns will be built on cast, stainless steel frames and slides, with an optional BearCoat finish. Price, at least for the first batch of guns, is $1149.95

I was very interested in getting one, but that price is really making me think twice. You can still find original, NIB CombatMasters for well under that amount.

Best,
Joe

 

[cerberus]

Their Nuts

I think they are nuts if they think people will be willing to pay over $1000 for this new or re-born again gun. Built on a cast SS frame Oh well there always someone who is nuts.

 

[Josey]

Not at HALF that money.

 

[George Hill]

WHAT?

OH THAT IS JUST FREAKING SPIFFY!

IF I WANTED CAST, I'D BUY AN OLD AUTO ORDINANCE!
:banghead:

 

[nextjoe]

George, to the best of my knowledge (and I'm not an expert), many (most?) of the original Detonics guns were built on cast frames. As I understand it, the first guns were cut-down Colts (and therefore forged). Later frames were from Essex and Caspian, which I *think* would have all been castings at that time, but I'm not 100% sure.

Functionally, I don't think cast vs. forged is significant (cast Caspians have great reputations, and cast BHP frames are said to be stronger than forged ones), but for a gun at that price, one would expect forged parts.

At least they won't have any MIM.

Best,
Joe

 

[VaniB.]

You know what guys.... Nobody out there makes a short gripped concealable .45 yet! NOBODY! I'm talking about a 2 finger grip.

What good is the Kimber Ultra carry or the Para Carry with that nice short chopped slide but a billy club long 3 finger grip sticking out of your shirt. I have sent notes to both these manufacturers asking when they were planning to produce these guns with a truly short grip to compliment the nice chopped slides they engineered. I asked Para Ordinance to simply make a single stack version of their P-10. Both replied that they have no interest. Kimber was almost combative to the idea of a shorter grip.

That was 3 1/2 years ago!! I'mmmm stilllllllll wait tingggggg.....
Glock's done it with their guns! What seems to be the problem with the brains at Para and Kimber? They can't figure out that a short slide deserves a short butt?

Anyway. I figured DETONICS will finally produce a .45 like how I want it. But man, now you tell me these guys are halucinating with a $1000+ price tag.

I'll just stick with my ultra reliable Kahr 9mm and Corbons at $425 if that's the way it's going to be.

 

[Old Fuff]

Before anyone gets upsent about "castings" remember that Ruger revolvers are made with investment cast frames and lockwork. Judging from the posts I read on this forum they hold up fine. The slides on Ruger center-fire pistols are also investment cast. "Tuner" just got done running a Springer .45 almost into the ground during a test (you can find his threads), and the gun - made with an investment cast frame and slide held up fine. Caspian is renouned for the high quality of their investment cast frames and slides. Don't think so? Ask Tuner.

The price you are looking at is MSR - and I expect the guns will sell for less on the street. Remember, the Detonics will be made with tool-steel internal parts, not MIM. As a practical matter I don't think you'll find anyone's gun that is made the same way selling for less. The basic problem is that no one can build a 1911 pattern gun the way it should be built for under an asking price of 1,000.00 or more.

Jerry is building a weapon - for serious people that may stake their life on it. And knowing that he will build them "right" - and because of that he won't have trouble finding customers.

 

[George Hill]

I know... Investment cast frames and slides can be most excellent. I was just getting everything out of the way.... having a little fun. *sigh* I am still very much looking forward to seeing a new Detonics in my holster. I've been saving pennies for it. I have to admit though that the price is a bit higher than I would have guessed.
For this kinda scratched it could be milled from forged billets. Evidently the New Detonics is all about the profit margin. So, yeah, I am a bit disappointed there.

We shall see.

 

[WonderNine]

With the .45GAP coming out......and at that price (even if it's retail)...... and regardless of the fact that it will be super high quality, I predict it will be a failure! And I think that's a real shame.

I'd recommend they bring one out in .45GAP and .40S&W and move the rear site back where it belongs and lower the MSRP by about $400.

 

[stans]

$1149.95 MSRP would translate to about $995 on the self. That is still a bit steep in this day and age of Colt, Kimber, Springfield, and various Phillipino compact 1911's at $700 or less.

 

[nextjoe]

From talking to Jerry, my understanding is that the price isn't $1149.95 MSRP. It's $1149.95 period. I have the order form sitting right here next to me. If you want a gun from that first batch, you sign up for their "subscription" program, send a check for $249.95 when they're ready to build your gun, and send another $900 "within 60 to 90 days." Then they ship to your FFL.

Now, I don't know if the price will drop after that initial batch, but at least for those first guns, it's $1149.95, plus whatever your dealer charges for the transfer, plus (maybe) sales tax. Add another $50 if you want to pick your serial number.

In my opinion, the price is steep but not totally out of line. I think original Detonics guns cost about 50% more than a standard Colt, which is (I think) around $700 today. Adding 50% takes us to $1050, which isn't far from $1149.95. The big difference is that at the time of the original guns, there wasn't any real competition in the ultra-compact 1911 market. Today there is. And, as I mentioned in a previous post, old, original Detonics guns can still be had NIB for around $800 or less.

If they use high quality parts, assemble them properly, and make the guns run perfectly right out of the box, I think they might still be worth the price. I think I'm going to take a "wait and see" approach, though.

Best,
Joe

 

[Slowhand]

Well, I guess they're just going to have to go out of business, AGAIN.

 

[rbernie]

Tuner" just got done running a Springer .45 almost into the ground during a test (you can find his threads), and the gun - made with an investment cast frame and slide held up fine.

Not to highjack a thread here, but I was of the impression that all SA 1911-pattern pistols used forged slides and frames. Are the MilSpecs/GI's really cast?

 

[W Turner]

I think the Springfields are forged.

 

[Safety First]

The information on this thread about the Detonics is at least to me dissapointing. The price seems steep and I just don't like the rear sight so far forward. At least for me when the time comes to purchase very small ccw .45 I don't think the Detonics will be one of the possibles.

I too am interested in the .45 GAP concept so maybe in the next several months one of the manufacturers will come out with something that will get my attention. The Detonics may be just the ticket for others but at least for now it is not looking appealing to me, just my 2cents worth...

 

[stans]

Springfield's do use forged slides and receivers, just like Colt and Kimber. The old Detonics used cast receivers, not sure about the slides, but they could have been castings as well. I can't get over the price tag of $1149.95! You can buy a compact Charles Daly or Armscor, replace the barrel, springs, magazine and extractor and still have money left for a new holster, belt, mag holder, and about 1800 rounds of white box practice ammo! Sorry Mr. Ahern, but I don't think I will be buying any of your pistols.

 

[VaniB.]

What is all this hype about the .45 gap? I see no advantage whatsoever of shrinking the already short .45 auto case 1/8" of an inch to produce the same ballistics. What does that gain you? It's not like when we shrank the long and powerfull recoiling 10mm cartridge to the short but efficient .40 S&W.


Slowhand, you got that right. "Out of business again" is exactly what's going to happen. I'm also not crazy about this cocked and locked .45 being without a grip safety AGAIN!!!!

 

[WonderNine]

What is all this hype about the .45 gap? I see no advantage whatsoever of shrinking the already short .45 auto case 1/8" of an inch to produce the same ballistics. What does that gain you? It's not like when we shrank the long and powerfull recoiling 10mm cartridge to the short but efficient .40 S&W.

Why not put the same powered load into a shorter cartridge? Would make the grip of the Denotics not quite so long and the .45GAP has a stronger case than the .45ACP. Also most of the .45GAP loads seem to be in the 450/500fpe range which is like a .45ACP +P. They also seem slightly more efficient out of the shorter barrel. The .45GAP seems to get the same numbers out of a 4" barrel as the .45ACP does out of a 5" barrel.

Slowhand, you got that right. "Out of business again" is exactly what's going to happen. I'm also not crazy about this cocked and locked .45 being without a grip safety AGAIN!!!!

Alot of us carry BHP's and it's never bothered us. In fact I've always found the grip safety to be annoying and unnecessary.

 

[Kevlarman]

Is this the same Jerry Ahern who wrote those Dan Track novels?

 

[TheFrontRange]

Is this the same Jerry Ahern who wrote those Dan Track novels?

I was wondering the same thing...I read most of Ahern's "The Survivalist" series back in high school, plus his monthly articles during his stint as Gunleather Editor for "Handguns" magazine. In "The Survivalist" series, his protagonist John Thomas Rourke used (among other weapons) a pair of Detonics .45s...so...if this IS the same Ahern, I reckon this is a type of "life imitating art" situation?

 

[nextjoe]

Yep, same guy.

I guess I'm not alone in thinking the price is a bit high. I suspect they're hoping to get into the semi-custom market segment with the likes of Les Baer, Ed Brown, and Rock River, none of whom offer ultra-compact models. There probably is a niche market there. Whether that market is big enough to support a company I have no idea.

I really would like to see them succeed, especially if they make a very high quality product.

Best,
Joe

 

[WonderNine]

Hell, I actually probably would buy one if it was in .45GAP.

 

[LittleLarry454]

 

[Trigger]

"Tuner" just got done running a Springer .45 almost into the ground during a test (you can find his threads), and the gun - made with an investment cast frame and slide held up fine. ". ---Old Fuff

No-no.... Springfield uses FORGED frames and slides! :banghead:

 

[45auto]

The highest volume producer of american made 1911's, Kimber, starts at $650+. I'd bet their "average" sale is in the $750-$800 range.

I don't know how a small manufacturer of 1911's could be much under that $900-$1,000 range and stay in business in today's enviroment. But, a "cast" slide is not going to be a great "advertising" tool to sell them. Although Para "gets away" with it...somewhat.

Cast frames are pretty common with Caspian, Sig GSR, STI Trojan, not to mention their $2,000 plastic framed 1911's.

Only in the 1911 world can using plastic actually increase the selling price. I love free enterprise.