Tell me all about the Hk p7

[boredelmo]

I love this gun, the size, the look, the features.

Tell me why i shouldnt like it, and trade away most my guns just for one.

Or, tell me why owning this gun is def worth all the meager savings of a college student.

 

[Autolycus]

I have been wanting one of these myself. Being a broke college student, I realized that I may have to trade two or three guns for one. I cannot carry as I am in Illinois but I do realize that I would like to hold onto as many guns as possible. I am just saving up for something nice like the P7.

 

[MaterDei]

I wouldn't trade most of your guns for it until you've at least had the opportunity to shoot one. They are great guns, for sure. But they are also very different in their mechanics and not everybody can grow comfortable with them.

I can't wait for one to come out in .45ACP

 

[Sidewinder6]

I have owned three. A PSP, then 2 M8's. I still am the proud owner of the third one and it is a carry gun now and I used my PSP as a duty gun as a police officer.

The gun is compact like a .380 but packs a full sized 9x19. It is centered on your firing hand to minimize recoil. Uses a grip handle to charge the weapon and fires ALL single action. My current M8 has a 3lb pull after charging the weapon. Charging the weapon takes about ~12-14 lbs ( a consicous grip), then about 4lbs to hold the weapon 'on charge'. The barrel is unitized with the lower frame and when you remove the slide, the barrel stays in place.

The weapon is gas fed and you need to maintain the gas ports to prevent carbon build up with a brush that is supplied. No big deal.

The weapon becomes hot because of the barrel, and transfers heat down the frame and trigger. It is noticible but not a problem unless you are shooting a couple hundred rounds an hour. I have some friends who have been burned by a hot frame.

Combat reloads are what makes this gun outstanding. The gun slidelocks on empty and the M8 allows you to eject the spent mag while retrieving the new. Once loaded, you only need to squeeze the charging handle and the weapon is back online. This takes a full second and an additional step out of the reload.

Spare mags are expensive ~$75 each so you need to take care of them. Most shooters do anyway but now you will polish them

Last thing, this gun is extremely accurate. They are expensive but they are a collectors items.

 

[gbelleh]

The recently imported P7s can be had for a lot less than the P7M8. I just got a nice grade B for $599 shipped. The P7 is one of my favorite guns of all time.

 

[noops]

I can't wait for one to come out in .45ACP

HK prototyped it and there are 6 p7m7's (.45 P7 in existence). HK Has them all. If you get your hands on one, you'd better show it off!

Besides that, P7 is my daily carry. Love it. But find one and try it. They do have an odd manual of arms. The Squeeze Cocker is cocking mechanism, but when released it completely disengages the trigger (you can pull the trigger all the way through it's articulation and the gun won't fire), unlike regular safeties that block the trigger.

Also, the squeeze cocker doubles as the slide release. Very nice for fast mag reloads. There isn't a standard semi-automatic style slide stop. There is an annoying little button that will engage the slide (slide stop) if there's no empty magazine in it, but it doesn't really work as a slide release. The squeezer does that. Because of this, this is the only gun I've trained on without using the slingshot method, although it still works. It is really fast though to learn to change mags and release with the squeeze.

Another interesting safety effect is that if you drop or release the gun, the safety/squeezer engages.

Even more strange is that part of the manual of arms is "reverse firing." According to it's manual, you can hold the trigger down, and pull the squeeze cocker, and the gun will fire. Not entirely sure why you'd do that, and I don't think I've ever tried/trained it on mine.

Pros:
- The trigger is phenomenal. the closest thing I could really get to a 1911 style trigger in a 9mm(my other carry is Ed Brown 1911).
-The ergonomics are great
- pretty inherently accurate with the fixed barrel, long sight radius, good trigger (especially on so compact a gun).
-Nice and light and small compared to a full size 1911, mags are really compact so easy to pocket carry spare mags.
-Low recoil because of the piston/retardation system
- pretty cool that the chamber is fluted so that it will extract and cycle even if the extractor breaks.
- Fast reloads without slingshot because of squeeze release (takes some training and getting used to).

Cons:
- 8+1 rounds (m8 style) but that doesn't bother me, bigger than say a glock 26 which holds more rounds, nicer to shoot than a glock though (I have both, and much prefer the P7).
- That little slide lock is fricking annoying to articulate. But you usually don't need it in training because the slide locks back.
- Finish: Finish is ok'ish. It's great in that they use super hard steel for the pistol, but most of them turn an odd plum color after a while. Mine actually rusted a little bit on the trigger guard, so I had it hard chromed by Tripp Research. Nice stuff. I live in Oregon at the foot of the temperate rain forest/mountains. So the finish issue may not be an issue for you.
- Cleaning. This gun is cooler that ice from space. But cleaning it totally sucks. It's got lots of parts, and you have to scrape out the piston area with a little tool, and it's hard to get under the fixed barrel, and you have to take the grips off, and did I mention there's lots of bits? Yeah, cleaning it sucks.

Fun to shoot though, and the Ed Brown and it are hands down my favorites.

 

[hso]

I've wanted one of these for years, but the price and availability has put me off. The other thing that relegated it to a collectible status was watching 2 well maintained P7M8s fail in a training class. Not just 1, both of them. Locked up tight as a drum. While they didn't do this until having fired about 400 rounds in a day the BHPs, 1911s, CZ75s in the class never stopped running. I'm not sure that's fair to the P7s considering you'd never run a carry gun that hard defensively, but it made me less prone to get one.

 

[noops]

HSO,

I've never had mine lock up, and I've done some 1000 round days with it, but I can also see how it might be like a impingement rifle like an AR. Definitely has very tight tolerances, and probably doesn't like a lot of dirt. Keep it clean and it'll run fine. I would definitely not put it in the Glock or USP category for "will go though anything ever and still fire" but I'm a suite most of the time.

Noops

 

[CWL]

hso, do you know if the malfs were due to broken firing pin bushings? Probably the most-common malf for the P7 pistol.

I own one each of P7/PSP, P7/M8 and P7/M13. And while I don't even shoot 9mm anymore (much) I probably never will sell these fine pistolas.

If you take off the grips and look at the cocking mechanism, it will remind you more of a fine watch than a firearm. The concept of the P7 pistol is a fine performing police gun, dependable and accurate for that once-in-a-life incident. It was meant for city carry-and not combat in a war environment; because of that, this is not the right pistol if anyone is looking for Glock, USP, M1911 toughness and reliability in harsh elements.

 

[Golddog]

With the P7, is there a tendency under stress to clench the cocking mechanism, with an attendant reflex to clutch the trigger at the same time? I've often wondered about unwanted discharges with these guns.

 

[10-Ring]

My only "complaint" w/ my P7M8 is that after 80 rounds or so, it'll get REALLY HOT I can't imagine going through 1000 rounds in a day through mine...unless I had 3 or 4 to rotate out with and trade out every 100 rounds or so

 

[Sidewinder6]

I have heard about the lock ups you mentioned. Carbon build up. There is another model that uses a different gas system that alledgedly eliminates the problem. I shoot with a guy who has 3 of these things and likes them.

I read the cleaning comment and never thought it was that bad but I also never got to the point where I was admiring all the small parts

 

[noops]

With the P7, is there a tendency under stress to clench the cocking mechanism, with an attendant reflex to clutch the trigger at the same time?

Golddog,

I have not noticed this. I train with the squeezer just like I train on a 1911 safety. On target, safety off. Low or out, safety on. I index my finger high up on the slide with either pistol (or any pistol for that matter), so even in that situation it's kind of moot.

 

[Robert]

You should talk to Justin the Mod. He has a few P7's and knows a good deal about them.

 

[Justin]

I don't know that I'm any kind of expert on them, but I do like them.

You'll have to learn the manual of arms. The first time I shot a P7 was a let down, because the pistol kept de-cocking in between shots. I had to practice to get the technique down for properly holding the gun.

I think this might be due to my having somewhat larger hands. If you have a lot of slop in your grip technique, you might run into trouble.

So, I wouldn't just buy it and immediately start carrying it without putting at least a few hundred rounds through it.

Also, the aforementioned heating up of the weapon once you fire a bunch of rounds through it. But this isn't as huge of an issue as some people make it out to be.

FWIW, I consider the P7 to be a fantastic defensive/carry pistol.

 

[bpsig]

p7

I picked up a psp years ago. I still have it and have worn the finish off. I sent it off to hk for a check up the out for a protective coating of duracoat. Electric black finish. Looks great and works as well. I think they are getting rare again so I minght pick up another one from cdnn got the new catalog today 599's not bad. just keep 115 or 124 in it not 147 loads.

 

[Zak Smith]

I have two P7 PSPs that I use for CCW. Although heavy - or more accurately "dense" - they are extremely compact and thin.

 

[Molasses]

Back to the OP... My advice; move heaven and the other place to get a chance to play with one at a range. If something clicks and it feels like part of you, you'll know what you need to do and if it doesn't, well then, that urge will have gone away! Just do it NOW, while the current crop of German police trade-in PSPs is available and (relatively) cheap.

BTW and FWIW, I've found that using the "pushmepullee" approach to a two-handed grip where the right hand pushes forwards and the left resists makes the whole squeeze cocking thing take care of itself and at about the sensible point for it in the whole cycle of presenting the piece. Only time I worry about it now is on one-handed drills, and it's become habit to squeeze faster than I'd expected. The "pull trigger, then squeeze to fire" thing sounded interesting from the manual, but I think it's got a tendancy to become one shot with a relatively long reset on the shooter's part to change gears and come off the trigger to do successive shots. Might not be bad for a one shot speed rock, but... Of course, YMMV, etc.

 

[ccmdfd]

Great guns.

The freez ups mentioned in a post above could be due to carbon build up in the gas system. I've had this happen once, locked up tighter than a drum. It was due in my case to me not reading the manual well and putting lube on the gas piston.

The gas piston is designed to be used with no lube (or extremely small amounts). The heat will turn the lube to crud, which will foul the gun.

P7's did well in the M9 trials (M13's), the failed the salt water test, but only after 1 week of drying off without cleaning/re-lubing. I forget what their mean rounds before failure was, but it was pretty darn high.

cc

 

[waterhouse]

I'll try to focus on the bads. If I could only have one pistol, though, it would probably be the P7.

I've had mine get sluggish after several hundred (about 700) rounds. Field strip showed a bunch of buildup on the piston. I've never had it "lock up" but it might have if I had kept shooting it. That was the most I've ever put through it at one time. They do require a little more care and cleaning than some other guns. Keep the pistol clean and it will keep running, and mine eats everything (the horror: I put tons of Wolf through my main one, no problems)

They seem a little heavy for their size (I think Zak nailed it with "dense"), but with a good holster/belt I don't have any trouble carrying it all day.

The finish is not the greatest. My carry gun is pretty worn on a lot of the edges, but I haven't had any problems with rust or anything. Someday I might send it off the get refinished.

Also, after a lot of shooting, they can get really hot. If you like the gun and like shooting a lot I recommend getting a couple so that one can cool down while you shoot the other one. I keep a couple spares around.



I really like the trigger, the size, the accuracy, the "pointability" (for me, this is one of my few guns where I can screw up and stop looking at the front sight and still hit what I'm aiming at. . . I don't know why, but it shoots where I look) and the manual of arms, but they aren't for everyone. I've seen people shoot them and say "I've got to have one!" and other people be not too impressed. As always, if you have the opportunity, try before you buy.

Prices have come down quite a bit with the police trade ins hitting the market, so now might be as good a time as ever to buy.

 

[Coronach]

Dear LORD!

Mike

 

[Coronach]

OK. I just had to get that expression of shock in there.

I'm better now.

They're great guns. I own one, and love it (thanks, Atticus!). I will also do the CONs first.

On the bad side...

1. Capacity. It's respectable, but most modern autopistols in 9mm carry more. I consider this to be a very minor negative, at worst.

2. Weight. It's heavy for its size. Another minor negative.

3. Heat. The gas system makes it heat up quickly. This is a non-issue for defensive use, but it can make it hard to do a lot of practice at the range. Another minor negative.

4. Expense, of the gun, the magazines, and parts. How big of a negative this is depends upon your wallet.

5. Mag release. You get either the heel release, or, I believe, the H&K push-down mag release. Another minor negative, if that.

6. Odd manual of arms. This is a major negative if you don't practice a lot with the gun. Sure, it seems simple and inuitive, and in many ways it is, but when the balloon goes up the simple gets complex and anything you have to think about can get kludgy and cumbersome. If you forget to squeeze, nothing happens. If you have failed to ingrain the whole "squeeze the cocker but keep the index finger straight" response, everything might happen too soon. If this sounds stupid, consider why we train keeping the finger outside of the trigger guard in the first place. Under stress, you tend to clench your fists. If you're drawing the gun for real, you're under stress. If you clench you hand around the cocking lever, you might just clench all of your fingers if you have not practiced enough. I consider this a major negative, but only if you don't practice enough.

7. The finish can be thin and easily worn. Fixable, but annoying on a $800 handgun.

PRO:

1. The gun is reliable.

2. The gun is flat and easily concealable.

3. It is as small as some .380s, and shoots 9mm.

4. The trigger is outstanding.

5. Once learned, the manual of arms is fast and fluid

6. If a bad guy gets the gun, they might not be able to make it run. I dunno how useful this is, but it can hardly hurt, no?

7. The gun points naturally.

8. The gun is extremely accurate.

I consider it a VERY good defensive pistol, but I would make sure I trained with it until the manual of arms was second nature.

Mike

 

[ccmdfd]

Holy Cow Waterhouse!

Couple of spares indeed!

I pitty your bank account.

You do realize that that picture is assymetrical. The bottom row doesn't have as many guns as all the ones above it. You should fix that by purchasing another!

Are all of those M8's, or PSP's, or what?

Thanks
cc

 

[waterhouse]

You do realize that that picture is assymetrical. The bottom row doesn't have as many guns as all the ones above it. You should fix that by purchasing another!

You know what's funny, is I took them all out of their boxes for the picture, snapped it, put them all back away, and then realized I still had one on my hip that I forgot about.

All the ones in the picture are PSPs. I don't carry a spare mag, so I actually prefer the PSP for carry. I own one M8, but don't shoot it much.

I had several before the recent influx, but I figured I needed to buy a lot of them while they were cheap[er]. Family members have already spoken for a few in the picture, and I'll probably sell some off here and there, but I always plan on having some spares laying around.

 

[boredelmo]

I think i can live with the fact of 8+1 compared to 7+1 in a full sized p220 or 1911.

I'm of those "shot placement" believers

PM sent to waterhouse : )