The definitive surplus .308 thread

[Father Knows Best]

There's a lot of wisdom out there about surplus .308 (7.62x51) ammo. How about sharing it in one place? We might even get to the point where it qualifies for a "sticky"!

I have about 300 rounds left of some surplus ammo that I got with a rifle I bought. It was packed 20 rounds to a box, and 200 rounds to a battle pack. I don't know for sure what it is, but the headstamp is BF 80 27 and a little cross in a circle.

I've heard that the "BF" means it is Portuguese, and the little cross in a circle means it is "NATO spec." Is that right?

Is it good ammo? Is it corrosive? I read somewhere that anything with the little NATO spec symbol is NOT corrosive. Is that reliable?

Finally, what are the better/worse 7.62x51 surplus? I'll need more soon. I hear that Indian is pretty bad, and everybody wants South African. Why? What about the other stuff (Israeli, Argentinian, Australian, etc.)?

 

[ziadel]

the only stuff I wont touch is the Indian ammo.

All the rest works well enough with some being a little better than the others... I'll take whatever I can get.


just never ever ever ever any indian ammo.

 

[Father Knows Best]

What headstamps indicate Indian? I know that OFV is one of them. Are there others?

 

[Feanaro]

I've heard that the "BF" means it is Portuguese, and the little cross in a circle means it is "NATO spec." Is that right?

Yes to both, though some of my favorite 7.62x51 ammo(Australian) isn't NATO marked.

Finally, what are the better/worse 7.62x51 surplus?

Personally I like Australian F4. The headstamp is "F4, MF[manufactured], XX[year of production]". But that doesn't seem to be very plentiful anymore. I've heard good things about the South African but I've never tried it.

 

[Dave R]

I also won't touch CAVIM.

But I like Portugese and South African.

 

[longhorngunman]

Don't know if BF is Port or not I know FNM stamping is Port. Portuguese surplus is generally regarded as the best Military surplus ammo to be found in .308 bar none. The South African and Australian is considered good and I've been told the Aussie is loaded hotter than the rest. As far as good deals go I got 1000 rds from www.southernammo.com . Shot about 500 of it so far, good stuff, Israeli mainly, with Spanish, Belgium, and some Port included. Only had one jam in my Cetme with it and I can attribute that to the mag.

 

[Bob R]

I still have some surplus Hirtenberger left, and just got a shipment of loose Lake City. I haven't culled it yet, but plan to do so soon. I also got some M118, which is long range 7.62.

Hopefully I can get out to the rang next week to try out the Lake City. The Hirtenberger is some very good surplus.

bob

 

[Eightball]

Argentine/Australian

I've used surplus Argentine/Australian ammo as of late. The brass is a little bit dirty, but that doesn't affect how it shoots (I don't care that it's a slightly dirty casing, I don't reload). It's marked 7.62x51 25 FLB 82, I don't know what it means ; it's not corrosive as far as I can tell Good stuff, shoots well.

I've also used surplus Spanish stuff, clean brass, marked 7 N O 7,62 (yes, that's a comma). That wasn't corrosive as far as I could tell, but I'm quick to clean my rifles, so I'm not sure. Also good stuff, shoots well.

FWIW--To compare, I have also shot Wolf--no problems .

I tend to buy stuff either from local shops (the Spanish stuff), or from www.ammunitionstore.com (the Argentine/Australian, Wolf, and they have lots of other stuff). I've gotten great deals on bulk surplus from the latter, so I hope this helps people decide what to buy. Let's keep the info/advice rolling, good idea FKB .

 

[MechAg94]

The South African better be okay because I have too much of it. No problems. Most of it is Berdan primed, but I don't reload anyway. I have been looking for inexpensive boxer primed stuff, but I was trying to avoid the Agentina stuff. Maybe I shouldn't. I don't think I have seen Australian ammo. I will keep my eyes open.

 

[Feanaro]

Anyone have experiance with the Pakistani stuff ammunitionstore offers? It's cheaper Australian contract but I'm reluctant to use ammo from any place I wouldn't willingly visit.

 

[DeputyVaughn]

Neat thing about the Port.....you can pick it up with a magnet!!!!!!!!

Scott

 

[Eightball]

I'm reluctant to use ammo from any place I wouldn't willingly visit.

Good advice, that. If you can't drink the water, or wouldn't visit there, the ammo they supply would probably be sub-par. Just a little adage I live by in my surplus shopping

 

[longhorngunman]

Best advice I ever heard when it comes to mil surplus ammo, is this, "If it's made in a country where you wouldn't want to drink the water, then you probably don't want to shoot the ammo".

 

[longhorngunman]

Dang it Eightball, you beat me to it!

 

[Zak Smith]

Back when it was freely available, the Port surplus was good stuff.

I recently tried the Australian F4 ball. It shoots good enough to hit 10" plates at 700 yards with my AI-AWP, with just 0.2 mil more elevation than my match loads.

-z

 

[Ky Larry]

It doesn't matter if it's corrosive or not. Just follow the old addage:"Never let the sun set on a dirty weapon." This is especially true with gas guns.

 

[Farnham]

The gents over at Battlerifles are very knowledgeable about surplus 7.62x51mm, and from what I've gleaned in a couple years of reading there, the short list goes like this:

Lake City
Hirtenberger
Radway Green
Australian
Portugese
South African

You can't lose with Port, Aussie, South African, and Lake City, I've shot at least 500 rounds of each, over 1500 Port and just short of 1000 of South African. The Aussie did require me to dial down a couple of clicks from the usual Port/SA setting, and it seemed to kick a bit more.

I don't have a chrono, but I've seen a table somewhere (can't find it now that I want it ) that listed all those and a few commercial loadings (Federal GMM .308 for instance) with muzzle velocity, bullet weight, chamber pressure, and all sorts of good info.

Avoid the Indian, and I've not heard anything about the Pakistani, but I'd shoot something else, given the choice. See the above advice about water and surplus ammo.

If I can find that table, I'll post it up, it was a big .PDF and excruciatingly detailed.

S/F

Farnham

 

[R.H. Lee]

Is the Portuguese berdan primed?

 

[Farnham]

Yes, it is. So is South African. I can't remember if the Aussie was boxer or berdan, I wasn't reloading when I used it, so never checked. If you want to reload, go for the Lake City.

S/F

Farnham

 

[Eightball]

It shoots good enough to hit 10" plates at 700 yards with my AI-AWP, with just 0.2 mil more elevation than my match loads.

Whoa, sweet shooting. And, apparently, sweet surplus ammo

 

[moredes]

BF could be Norwegian.

Here's a link to a list of headstamps:

http://cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm

 

[db_tanker]

Hirt is my favorite...
I still am sitting on three battle packs not wanting to open them...

It shot very well in my FAL and it is very accurate out of my bolt rifle...plus its boxer, so you can't beat that...PITA when you have to process it, but thats a one-time thing.


The indian works best when the bullets are pulled and powder discarded...then you start over with blasting ammo using surplus pull-down powder like BLC2 or some such...sounds like a lot of work, but when your pulling bullets and notice that out of the same batch that three have ball powder and two have stick....ugh...no bueno!

 

[Father Knows Best]

BF could be Norwegian

Nope. This is one I'm sure about. The Norwegian plant that uses BF has never made rifle ammo. Any rifle ammo with a BF headstamp is Fábrica Nacional de Munições de Armas Legeiras in Chelas, Portugal.

 

[R.H. Lee]

In some thread somewhere I think I said the British Radway Green was boxer primed. Well, I just checked some spent brass ('83 manufacture) and it's Berdan primed I spoke before I looked.