The horrific lie that a 'stopping power' scale doesnt exist

[glockarmourer40517]

most of “gun-people” confuse "stopping power" with AIT (average incapacitation time).

unfortunately, the sophistry the armchair gun-nut engages in believing, is that since, FACTUALLY SO, there are numberless variables which must be taken into account as regards 'stopping power'…..such as:
1. shot placement
2. ammo (exotic HP)
3. gun/ barrel length
4. clothing on victim
5. angle of shot
6. velocity
7. stamina of victim, his adrenaline level at time of shot-entry.
8. on and on and on etc etc etc etc………infinity.

All these lead the armchair gun-nut to believe that ‘stopping power’ is an “outdated slang” best reserved for TV shows, etc.

One can kill another with a properly placed BB, also and including giving enough time for bleed-out AND/OR shock to take place.


Ignorantly.....(very very very very Ignorantly)..many "armchair gun-gurus" think:

A: 'stopping power is a mythos"

B: Exotic modern ammo negates caliber size/velocity/mass (which is an utter lie)

C: "many so-called tests like the goat-shoots prove nothing since this isn’t ABSOLUTELY scientific".........absolute rubbish.

Countless police forces have ditched their 9mm glocks/ S&W/ Sigs in exchange for mostly .40SW and a few for 45ACP

The rule of conceal carry is : “ALWAYS CARRY AS MUCH (GUN) AS YOU CAN HANDLE”……if you can carry any form of .45, then you shouldn’t be carrying a 9mm, regardless of the nature of the ammunition.

the reasoning behind same is due to countless shoot-outs with drugged up, drunken & stoned / lunatic criminals who fail to become "immediately incapacitated" with 9mm shots......not only this, but MULTIPLE 9mm shots.

Countless "NON-REPRODUCABLE AND NON-SCIENTIFIC" real-world encounters by Officers is a QUALITATIVE and QUANTITATIVE reson for numberless police forces to have ditched their 9mm's for .40SW. period.

Or, why did you think so many gun distributors (such as CDNN and others) have had used “ex-cop” 9mm Glocks and S&W guns now for the past 5+ years?…

….my local gun shop ALONE has run thru 3 different local police departments who ditched their primary 9mm glocks….and every last one of their back-up Glock 26s…..a total of a few 100 of 9mm handguns…..that’s one gun shop only….

Ignorantly most "gun-gurus" think that killing their opponent/attacker is the point, when of course it is not.

Immediate incapacitation is the goal.

Any opponent/attacker who is wounded with, say a 9mm HP, is provided with enough time before shock/incapacitation/bleed-out occurs, is going to A: shoot you back…..B. Knife you. C kill you in another way….in which case you have achieved nothing….Yes your opponent/attacker will DIE, but alas he has killed you in the interim between his being shot multiple times, and his incapacitation.



Any person on THIS THREAD or otherwise who thinks, “stopping power doesn’t exist” (really is meant AIT/Average incapacitation time)

Such an ignorant person is EQUALLY DISPOSED to therefore believe that, given: same shot, same person, same conditions; using a .22 LR has no less ‘stopping power’ than a .50 BMG

…..which is asinine in the extreme.

 

[TimboKhan]

One shot from a .22 at a couple of feet will kill a cow. One shot from a .50 at the same range will also kill a cow. Since you seem to put a certain amount of faith in believing in animal-tissue tests, how do you judge the stopping power in this scenario? Logic tells me pretty clearly that one is vastly more powerful than the other, but the result is still the same. Call it asinine and call me an arm-chair gunnut all you want, but shot placement trumps power every single time.

 

[LightningJoe]

You talkin' to me?

 

[steelhead]

Had an epiphany eh?

Some good suppositions but you need to brush up on the delivery.

but shot placement trumps power every single time.

There it is. The difference between a soldier and a Marine.

 

[glockarmourer40517]

QUOTE:::>>
One shot from a .22 at a couple of feet will kill a cow. One shot from a .50 at the same range will also kill a cow.



Its unfortunate you miss the ENTIRE POINT.......killing isnt the point, Sir, its AIT (average incapacitation time).

I can also kill a COW by sticking a sharp wooden splinter in its eye....and waiting 2 weeks for infection to set in , and blood poison and sepsis/infection to kill the cow.

Killing your attacker, Sir, is NOT THE POINT

You miss this for WHAT REASON.


A: you shoot your attacke with 7 9mm shots....say, 5 in the gut...and two in the lung.

B: hes wounded, but has ample time to kill you as well with X number of shots upon yourself.

C: he is incapacitated/dies 2 mins later.

D:...............you die 8 mins. later.


.......E: you have achieved nothing.....worrying MORE about "killing" someone, instead of incapacitating him to the point he couldnt return fire upon you.

YOU LOSE......... your family has a nice funeral for you.

 

[glockarmourer40517]

shot placement becomes decreasingly irrelavent when :

A: a lack of energy is transfered

B: a lack of surrounding tissue disruption occurs.....which is based upon A: mass of round (again, caliber), and B: diameter of round...and C: type of ammo (exotic HP vs. FMJ, etc etc).......and A, B, and C combined.


"carry as much gun as you can handle (accurately and with confidence as a result of practice)".

 

[modifiedbrowning]

Why thank you, Mylord for exposing my ignorance.
Lighten up Francis.

 

[Lonestar49]

Stop the BUS

...

I wouldn't touch this thread with a 15 foot pole..

Luckily, I have a 16 foot pole..

I'm content with 3 of my guns listed, and you can guess which 3..


LS

 

[steelhead]

A: you shoot your attacker with 7 .45ACP shots....say, 5 in the gut...and two in the lung.

B: hes wounded, but has ample time to kill you as well with X number of shots upon yourself.

C: he is incapacitated/dies 2 mins later.


D:...............you die 8 mins. later.


.......E: you have achieved nothing.....worrying MORE about "killing" someone, instead of incapacitating him to the point he couldnt return fire upon you.

YOU LOSE......... your family has a nice funeral for you.





A: you shoot your attacker with 7 .308 Win shots....say, 5 in the gut...and two in the lung.

B: he's wounded, but has ample time to kill you as well with X number of shots upon yourself.

C: he is incapacitated/dies 2 mins later.

D:...............you die 8 mins. later.


.......E: you have achieved nothing.....worrying MORE about "killing" someone, instead of incapacitating him to the point he couldnt return fire upon you.

YOU LOSE......... your family has a nice funeral for you.





A: you shoot your attacker with 7 155mm shots....say, 5 in the gut...and two in the lung.

B: he's.................................... Ahhh, now I see your point.


Nothing in life is for sure and Murphy is your friend. Even good hits with 12 gauge slugs have failed to stop attacks in time to prevent the attacker from wounding/killing the defender. Getting good hits does matter the most. Closely followed by all the other minutiae that "armchair" academics fret over so much.

 

[pax]

And ... I do believe this one is done.

Closed -- for trolling, snide comments, and general unpleasantness.

pax