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Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by ClemBert, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. Patocazador

    Patocazador Well-Known Member

    I have a conversion cylinder for my ROA that I occasionally shoot .45 Colt loads using up to 8.5 gr. of Unique with a 255 gr. SWC. I usually shoot hand cast 255 gr. pure lead FN bullets in a Starline case with 22.2 gr. of BlackHorn 209. I only have one ROA and see no real purpose in using it with maximum .45 Colt loads. I have a Blackhawk in .45 Colt for that.
    The reason for the hunting load in the ROA using Doak's capsules and BlackHorn 209 is to give reliable ignition using an essentially non-corrosive powder. That combo is legal here but any cartridge or smokeless powder wouldn't be in primitive weapons season.
  2. Doak

    Doak Well-Known Member

    OK. If we're talking about using smokeless loads w/primer capsules, that's not a good idea.

    It has nothing to do w/the quality/strength of modern steel, cylinder wall thickness, 14,000 psi., or etc., etc.

    The entire issue relates to the nipple threads at the rear of the ROA cylinder(s). Hot, high pressure smokeless gasses will fire-cut thru any threads, let alone the 12 -28 fine nipple threads, and blow out the nipples/capsules, from thread failure. Maybe not at first, but the temptation to use more powerful combinations is tuff to resist. My advise, whatever it's value, would be to not even go there w/smokeless.

    The brass cartridge case solved this problem by making an expandable seal, of the case wall, against the inside of the chamber, not allowing any gas to escape and fire-cut it's way to the outside.

    BP can't develope the pressure & heat to fire-cut. Although I have seen a poorly fitted nipple blow out of a percussion rifle using BP. Lotta racket & disappointment over that incident...

    Kindest Regards,
  3. Onty

    Onty Well-Known Member

    I understand your concerns regarding overloading ROA with smokeless powders. It is dangerous possibility. But, is this very same dangerous possibility while reloading any cartridge, and we still reload?

    Also, shouldn’t be the stress on the firearm with max. pressure of 14,000 PSI with BP same as 14,000 PSI using smokeless?

    I agree that another issue is the burning temperature of the certain smokeless powders when compared with BP. I have special concern about using double based powders. They generally have higher burning temperatures than single based. For that reason I avoid double base powders after seeing what they could do to a revolver after prolonged shooting, and 99% were target loads.

    Now, we all assume that its OK to use BP substitutes in BP guns. Aren’t they actually smokeless with additives to make lot of smoke?

    The reason for all this is our situation in northern areas; we have almost six months of winter, and shooting BP or BP substitutes is a big no-no in indoor ranges.

    Heck, make us this:


    And all problems solved :D, I will be first in line for two.
  4. Doak

    Doak Well-Known Member

    Hey Onty ~
    Nice drawing! I noticed that there are NO THREADS at the rear of the cylinder!

    We're talkin' about makin' a complete replacement cylinder here. Where the primer cup makes the pressure seal.

    I'm not set up to make that beautiful arrangement. I don't have enuff machinery & funding to take on that wonderful project. I wish I did! And I see a way to improve it, too.

    What's keepin' you from makin' it?

    Kindest Regards,
  5. HUnter58

    HUnter58 Well-Known Member

  6. Onty

    Onty Well-Known Member

    Thread will show when drawing is created, this is just snapshot of 3D model cut.

    As for sealing, idea was to use shotgun 209 primers, or small pistol/rifle adaptors like these:



    Unfortunately, I do not have machines to manufacture such cylinder.

    Well, looks like that if anybody wants to make such cylinder, patent owner should be contacted first.

    EDITED: Seems to me that Kenny Howell from Howell Old West Conversions LLC. is the right person to contact regarding patent rights and manufacturing of the cylinder for smokeless powders in modern BP revolvers. I will try to contact him by phone to confirm this.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  7. white smoke

    white smoke Well-Known Member

    Hybridized ROA

    Just wanted to show off my just finished, hybridized ROA. The cylinder is a Classic Ballistix. That cylinder locks up tight and a .004 feeler will just fit between it and the barrel. I'll get it out to the range next Sunday.

    Attached Files:

  8. Psycho

    Psycho Active Member

    Now that's an interesting piece.
  9. cwo2lt

    cwo2lt Active Member

    Here is mine. It's a BiCentennial model.

    Attached Files:

  10. Beetle Bailey

    Beetle Bailey Well-Known Member

    Oh, sweet! For some reason, they only made the bi-centennial model for one year ;)

    Anyways, I took my Old Army out for another range trip and caught the attention of a nice family (father, mother, son, and daughter) so I gave them a quick lesson on cap and ball revolvers and they all got to try a few shots. They all loved it! :D
  11. karlthev

    karlthev Active Member

    I'll take four...!

  12. karlthev

    karlthev Active Member

    Old topic...?...are there nylon or hard plastic nipple caps available
    to protect the nipples from "dry" firing?


    SUMIKITO Well-Known Member

    Plastic or nylon nipple caps/protectors.....Huh?

    Karlthev: If it's the Ruger Old Army and its nipples that you want to protect from nipple damage, well the facts are that a properly working Old Army with the 'correct' nipples, be they original Ruger brand or perfect aftermarket replacement types needs no protection. None, Nada, Zilch! The hammer on a proper and good working Old Army just baaaarellllly touches the nipple. If it does a tiny little bit, and sometimes happens when these are brand new, leave it alone. Not to worry. That is just fine. No harm will be done. The hammer tip on an Old Army, besides the sear, is the hardest part of the Old Army. The Old Army, and its firing/hammer mechanism is so precisely machined and put together with such tight tolerances that a lot of folks out there worry needlessly about stuff like these. Once your nipple is capped, it raises the surface a bit higher for the hammer tip to 'crush' that cap and hence fire it. "Precision!" The Ruger Old Army, built like a tank, with the precision of a swiss watch. Are we lucky or what?.......... Fire away my friend, worry not. :)
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013

    SUMIKITO Well-Known Member

    White Smoke; Nice looking two-tone you put together. Used to do that sort of thing a long time ago but with S&W revolvers of every caliber. Those two-tones are in a word....NEAT! Best regards....... ;)
  15. white smoke

    white smoke Well-Known Member

    Sumikito, thanks, I just don't like the aluminum grip frame for some reason. It started with this old New Model Blackhawk. Cruising the isles of a gun show a fella had this stainless frame with the rounded butt and grips for $50. I grabbed it & put it on the gun. Ejector rod housing is polished.

    Attached Files:

  16. karlthev

    karlthev Active Member

    SUMIKITO, thanks for the great info, much appreciated!


    SUMIKITO Well-Known Member

    Regular folks loving the Old Army..........

    Beetle Bailey: How very true indeed about shooting the Old Army for the first time. Most shooters, or onlookers at that, are always drawn to an Old Army firing away and belching white smoke at the range/ranges that I shoot at. Even the range masters seem to hover around it more than behind the guys firing away with their Glocks and what nots like there was no ammo shortage at all! It has an aura all its own. When I go out to shoot, the regular cartridge guns come too. But in the end, the Old Army seems to consume most of the range time with me, using both regular black and the conversion cylinders [.45acp/.45 Colt]. Have also made more friends at the range than all my other pistols combined could ever do. It is a very 'user friendly' pistol. No noobie ever forgets their first cylinder load with the Old Army. Love those smiles as they walk away thanking you for having them have a go with it. ["Like bees to honey"] What a honey of a pistol! :D
  18. kituwa

    kituwa Well-Known Member

    I dont think precision describes a ROA. It is a very well thought out design that has addressed nearly all the weaknesses of other cap and ball guns and is over built in most ways. It is easilly the most practical pistol ever. When i think of precision i think of a P08 luger or a colt python. The luger was so precision that it often failed from small amounts of dirt in the action. The python, at least the earlier ones where also very tightly fitted precision guns , so much so that a small amount of wear caused them to lose timeing. You could toss a ROA out the car window at 60 mph and it could bounce skid,get run over by a semi and land up in a mud puddle on the side of the road and it would probably still shoot fine,lol.On top of that,,it comes with its own reloading outfit.

    SUMIKITO Well-Known Member


    Well said Kituwa, have owned both of the pistols you mentioned before. The venerable and infamous P'08 would jam on anything but European full power NATO type 9mm ammo.Why heck, spit would cause it to mulfunction, as well as feeble saami spec american made ammo. The big Colt would need a visit for timing problems after about 700-900 rounds of full power wrist wrenching .357 ammo. Unlike a real true precision lockwork S&W revolver, Colt revolvers allways had this little weakness. The ROA has never to my knowledge nor to the gunsmiths all around me in my side of town, ever needed ANYTHING but maybe a good scrubbing and cleaning. That is what I really meant by that. It sure is a pistol that can take a lot of abuse and it still works, and works, and works! All the very best again. :)
  20. AbitNutz

    AbitNutz Well-Known Member

    There is something, "je ne sais quo" about the ROA. I started years ago with every type of go-fast automatic nuclear launch platform I could get my hands on. I have an original Automag I bought new. It is not what one would call overly reliable. I have had them all and still have most of them. I'm sure my grandson will love me more once I'm dead.

    Anyway, the only thing I actively shoot anymore is my ROA. I tweak and tune and try this and that. In the age of the polymer 15 shot, red dot reflex sighted fire-hose, I choose not to participate.

    I'm afraid I don't think of guns as pertaining to personal defense. They're mechanical history to me, like my cars. My wife's car is transportation. My cars are for driving and tweaking, tuning and trying this and that.

    Yes, that boy will love me lots more once I'm dead...rifles, pistols, fast cars and motorcycles. I'm sure his mother will hate me..heh, heh. Oh, alright. I'll leave her the house...whiner.

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