The Shape of Things to Come - Guns in the Future

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1776 Rebel

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First let me say that I really didn't know where to post this thread (moderator - if it needs to be moved go ahead).

Let me start off with the following. The Japanese business folks have always intrigued me. It is typical for Western businesses to put together 1 year, 5 year, or even 10-year business plans. The Japanese are known to have a much longer outlook. Sony Corporation actually has a 200-year business plan. It is done not because they can read the future but as a way to stimulate thinking and focus on extreme long-term goals and activities.

Beretta has been around for 500 years. But what they churn out has changed significantly.

In light of the above I've been thinking about a couple of things recently.

First of all is the Heller decision. Obviously over a long stretch of time our Constitution is going to be evaluated and interpreted by the court system (assuming our system of government stays pretty much as is, might not though!). With that, the legislative and executive branches are going to play a role also over time. Commentators are even now talking about Heller spinning off 30 years of appeals. Where will the NRA be in 100 years?

Technology is going to change. Firearms are our interest. Gunpowder might or might not survive as a component of projectile firing mechanisms. Computer technology is beginning to be integrated into guns, etc.

Finally the social aspect of this. We see a decline in hunting but an up tick in CCW. As time goes by society and its mores change. (Maybe gun stores go away and you can actually order stuff over the Internet?)

So to make things simple, here is what I would like to get some input on. I would like a projection on the following questions with a time perspective of 50, 100 and 200 years from now.

1. Project out where the legal system will take our gun rights over time.
2. Project out where the firearms technology will be.
3. Project out what will societal attitudes be like.

I’ll start by putting my two cents in.

1. In 50 years I think we will have a much clearer pro-gun legal situation. I also believe we will not be operating on the world stage alone. I believe the inherent nature of man is going to move most of the western world more to the right and establish more conservative governments. It took most of the 20th century to get rid of out and out communism. Socialism will take the same. Further down the line I definitely see a good amount of consolidation of nations. I believe in north America the USA, Canada and Mexico possibly merging. But it will be American rights on guns that will prevail. Western Europe will join us in celebrating the right of the individual to own and use firearms for self defense.

2. As to technology I think gun powder is going to be around for another 200 years but in a diminishing status. It will be an antique. Boutique shops will conjure it up and sell small quantities. Just like flintlock muzzleloaders now are still around but not used in much other than staged target events or collecting. Guns will become intelligent devices. Easily recognizing the shooter, responding to voice commands and on the longer horizon even the target. “shoot the dude on the left in the green jacket”. Me thinks a lot of this could happen in the 50 year timeframe. In 100 to 200 years definitely. Wood stocks and steel go away. Everything is molded of composite materials and ceramic. Lots of copper wiring, batteries and chips. Software is going to be integrated into the device and that will be the big ticket item. Potentially the projectiles become intelligent themselves.

3. Since killing animals might be viewed more negatively, shocking or marking them might become ok. Basically a 400 yard shot on a bull elk to drop an orange paint marker on it (biodegradable of course). Or a Taser shot. So you can immobilize it and send a picture of you and the elk back to the wife and kiddies. I also see society having two distinct very strong drivers. Security and safety, and the other being communication and information. Bad guys will always be around. Whether it is the local thug or the international terrorist. So the individual will always want to be able to defend him/herself. That says people are going to want guns. The CCW movement I believe supports this. So CCW will increase and become a universal across the country. The second says that a lot of our ‘take for granted’ activities of hunting and shooting will happen over some medium like the web. Gun clubs and gun shows will be fewer in a 100 years. Actually shooting will be much rarer. Some areas of the country will have one or two “sanctioned” places to shoot. Other areas like out west will have more. Shooting will be more like SASS. Not to put them down, but shooting in itself will be like theatre. It will be embedded in something else. Dress up time. Social gatherings with most of the time spent doing something other.


Ok, those are my thoughts. How about yours?
 
About technology and firearms, Remember the old adage:

To err is human, but to really screw things up, you need a computer.
 
I'll bite...

Gun rights: Assuming Heller goes our way, the legal situation will subtly shift. Gun bans will be dead. Back-door gun bans through over-regulation of ammunition will become the main threat. In particular, watch for "green" laws to try to ban lead. This may or may not work...I think we can hold the line on target ammo, but may lose on hunting ammunition. Nationwide CCW will happen by 2020. Watch for a push to reform licensing. The C&R may be replaced by a personal FFL with fewer limits. Also watch for a push to deregulate suppressors.

The worldwide situation...I'm not sure. I suspect that there will be a major political upheaval in Europe in the next 15 years, and I suspect that this shift will aid European shooters some.

The technology: More specialization in guns, with more electronics and gadgets for defensive weapons. Lights, lasers, and cameras will be better integrated, not add-on junk. Police firearms will have built-in video cameras, which will solve a lot of allegations...and send bad cops to the slammer. Similar pieces will be recommended but not required for personal defense. Optical sights will be standard.

Historical gun replicas will be big business. People will be willing to have a gadget-gun for carry and defense, but something more elemental for pleasure shooting. The Civil War sesquicentennial and the centennials of both World Wars will be important. The 1911 craze will dampen after 2018.

Ammo? The fight over small/fast and slow/big will continue. The 5.7x28 round will do well IF it is put into a gun better than the current FN offering.

Social attitudes: Firearm ownership will be more taken for granted, as will CCW. There will be a no-kill hunting movement (paintball, or even a coup stick), but it won't be big.

Some major shooting events will be televised. Watch for the first 21st century Olympics with ABC doing the coverage - ABC, with ESPN and ESPN2, has both the resources and mindset to cover ALL the Olympic sports. People will be shocked at what they were missing.
 
Handguns for personal defense may be replaced by hand held Active Denial Systems ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System ).

I highly doubt that the military would be giving this kind of technology to citizens any time soon, if they even do. It has been around for 12 years already.

ADS has undergone extensive testing since its inception more than 12 years ago

If I were out in the field I would NEVER put my trust into something like this, unless it was made for occupying road blocks and check points, as I still wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it.
 
I expect gun ownership to become less socially acceptable as the U.S. becomes more urban. As we "modernize" more and more generations will be out of touch with the hunting lifestyle. I believe in the last few years we have started a trend toward more "combat, tactical, self defense" type guns because so many more shooters are not hunters. My view of the future of gun culture in the U.S. is bleek. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Eliminate hunting and the animal population will explode (it's been tried many times). Disease and destruction will follow as the increasing herds try to survive. Wait till Bambi and the bunnies show up in your yard eating everything in sight. Professional hunters will have free reign over their rates and I'll bet they will go up. Folks will learn the hard way that there is a legitimate reason for hunting.
 
Ditto the previous poster. I don't have a warm-and-fuzzy feeling for the long term. I think we are about one Leftist administration and two or three headline grabbing firearms-related tragedies away from BIG problems, folks <Insert photo of Obama '08 campaign poster and VT shooting here>.

Increased urbanization and globalization will continue to isolate people from the 'outdoors' lifestyle as related to hunting and shooting sports. Look how many people alive to today think that food is only purchased and (maybe) microwaved, not killed, and certainly not harvested in the wild. <Insert photo of 20-something eating a Big Mac here.>

As the US loses international prominence, shifting global economical and political alliances will result in the application of increasing pressure for the US to conform with prevailing international views regarding disarmament of civilian populations. <Insert photo of that big steamroller staged to smash all those guns lined up for a hundred yards in front of it here.>

The cost of, well, everything, is going to add up in a big way. Just look at ammo costs. Even if you reload, look at component costs.

Now, what can we do to prove me wrong?
 
Guns aren't going to change much for a very long time. We are pretty much at the pinnacle of where gun development can go given today's limitations of Steel and smokeless powder. Until a new metal/material is discovered that can withstand more pressure than steel or a new propellent that yields more energy with less pressure comes along we will be pretty much in a holding pattern not unlike the technology of the flintlock musket which was the pinnacle of technology for hundreds of years.
 
In the suburbs of Pittsburgh you can't hunt because there are to many people. So there were about 120 deer about 5.5 square miles, until they killed 70. But now there are to many again.

Hunting might be forgotten if there isn't enough room for it. Then we will just hire "professionals" to kill animals for us.
 
The legal implications of using deadly force are so profound it's VERY doubtful you'll find a voice-command killing system to "kill the guy in the green jacket." The prospects for liability to the software designers are too great and the moral implications too profound. Besides, computers don't work that way outside science fiction.

I suspect we'll see a new propellant system to replace the 120 year old smokeless, which will in turn revolutionize firearm design just as smokeless did.

We'll also see much more sophisticated less-than-lethal weapons that can neutralized people without killing them.
 
cracked butt said:
Guns aren't going to change much for a very long time. We are pretty much at the pinnacle of where gun development can go given today's limitations of Steel and smokeless powder. Until a new metal/material is discovered that can withstand more pressure than steel or a new propellent that yields more energy with less pressure comes along we will be pretty much in a holding pattern not unlike the technology of the flintlock musket which was the pinnacle of technology for hundreds of years.

There are things we could do with existing technology to make some significant ballistic improvements over the current state of the art.

The first that intrigues me would be the development of a light gas gun as a hand-held weapon. Imagine if you could launch a lightweight, high ballistic coefficient projectile at 10,000 fps. It would make a heck of a varmint rifle.

The second would be further development of saboted projectiles. With conventional bullet loads you must compromise high ballistic coefficients and sectional densities for reduced working area for propellant gasses. With sabots you can gain velocity by applying greater force to a projectile without having to increase working pressures. I'd really appreciate seeing a fin-stabilized-discarding-sabot load for a 3.5" 12 gauge with a projectile engineered to maximize tissue damage.
 
That actually doesn't sound too bad. If thats the way the world goes then I will be pretty happy.

No reason to kill when you don't need to, but you should have the ability should the situation arise. I own guns not to take life, but to protect it.
 
There will not be more of a pro-gun attitude in the future. If you would like proof as to why, look at our school systems. They are the most indoctrinating force in today's society. Children are being taught global worming (pun intended), and anti-gun ways are what is right. Not only that, the teachers are not afraid to put a spin of their own into the mix while teaching their students.
 
Everyone in America will own a converted Saiga and 7.62x39 ammo will be in the $3-$4 range...per round.
 
5-10 years (maybe sooner) martial law will come and we will not be allowed to have guns.
 
Count me in as not sharing the OP's optimism. Just going by the trends of the last decades (the assault weapons ban's expiration notwithstanding, since it might well be re-implemented,) the noose has been tightening around us, very slowly and very gradually. (Frog in the boiling water.) I forsee ammunition taxes and other weaselly, underhanded tactics under the coming Obama cult.
 
So to make things simple, here is what I would like to get some input on. I would like a projection on the following questions with a time perspective of 50, 100 and 200 years from now.

1. Project out where the legal system will take our gun rights over time.
2. Project out where the firearms technology will be.
3. Project out what will societal attitudes be like.

Cool thread!

Here's my guess:

2058
1. Civilians are debarred the use of arms by the World Government.
2. Advanced propellants. Small diameter cartridges and projectiles for greater capacity. Advanced armor piercing alloys. Biometric sensors and datalogging. Programmable payloads from HE to Biologics to Nanomachines. Armed sentient robots. Early portable directed-energy weapons.
3. The earth empire is fracturing. Wars, terrorism, and uprisings. Separatist movements to man-made oceanic island-states to space exodus from same.

2108
1. Some space colonies recognize and uphold the right to keep and bear arms, some do not.
2. Advanced energy weapons. Early Psionics.
3. Many societal (man, machine, and hybrid) groups hold their rights dearly and will fight to keep them.

2208
1. Same as 2108.
2. Advanced Psionics. Continuum disruptors.
3. Freedom is as important as ever.


.
 
I think the economy of the US will collapse under the massive national and personal debt loads. Rising prices due to oil prices will lead to huge increases in unemployment. With government borrowing already beyond it's means to fund the war and rebuilding Iraq there will be no way to extend assistance to the growing number of people unemployed for over 6 months. Foreign governments, especially China, will stop buying US Treasure notes. We will have record foreclosures on homes and a huge number of families homeless and out of work. There will be growing civil unrest and bitter demonstrations. At one of these demonstrations one of the paramilitary police squads will shoot some protesters which will spark outbreaks of violence against police nationwide. President Obama, at the urging of Speaker of the House Pelosi, will use this unrest as a reason to declare martial law. This will include the immediate seizure of all firearms not owned by the government. Anyone found with a firearm after the turn in deadline will be labeled a "terrorist" and will simply disappear. Any of those who at one time owned a gun will be taken into custody as a potential threat and held at one of numerous now dormant interment camps operated by the Department of Homeland Security (check some vids on Yahoo tvo for more info about these) indefinitely.
 
Just to give you a better perspective on the time frame here are some things to ponder.

100 years is 25 Presidential election cycles away.

Using the 20th century as a reference:

from 1900 to 2000 we went from horse and buggy to men on the moon.

The USA was in two World wars, Korea, Vietnam and countless little dust ups all over the world.

The world went from paper and pencil to the Internet in less than 50 years.

Materials went from iron and steel to nano tubes, carbon fiber and silicon wafers built on nanometer scale.

From horses to the space shutte. The Voyager spacecraft actually left our solor system!

Senator Strom Thurmond served in the Senate from the Civil War until a few years ago.
 
in another 100 years, there might not even be such a thing as "guns" , except for museum peices. we all might actually be shooting lasers, or some other type of weapon. they may also may not nesescarily be for killing either. they may stun, tranquilize, immobilize, or any of a thousand different things.
if our world does not change, everyone may be issued some sort of "personal protection device as they turn 18.
for target practice, you would turn the setting to "paper, set the yardage, and the laser would focus at that range. anything prior or beyond that, it would just be a beam of light. no more worries of over penatration, no more "hunting accidents, etc.
who knows where science and legislation will bring us to in 100 years. but if they do do away with " traditional firearms", at least as we know them.
it will be both for the good and bad. the good would be better control, no muzzle flash or recoil, no inocent bystanders being accidentally shot, etc.
the bad will be no feel to the gun, no sensation of actually shooting probably the weapons wont even resemble what we have now. no long or short guns, no rifles, shotguns, pistols, nothing to reload. etc.
you will just plug it in overnight to charge it, have a second weapon that straps on your wrist at night, and in the morning, you are good to go.
no, i do not watch sci-fi. and, hopefully in the future, they will still have traditional arms. if for nothing else, for target shooting for fun. pushing a button on a laser just wont be the same as squeezing the trigger on a 500 S&W!
 
moooose102 - if traditional firearms fade away I wonder how that would affect the second amendment. It references the rkba ARMS. Might that be construed to mean ONLY firearms? If not, then are swords and tasers for instance protected under the 2A now? I don't think I have heard any lawyer types mention that. But if anyone else knows if the 2A only applies to classical firearms (gunpowder belching beasts) please tell us.

As for sci-fi I really didn't want this to be a sci-fi thread. Only thoughtful stuff please.
 
"As for sci-fi I really didn't want this to be a sci-fi thread. Only thoughtful stuff please. "

???...100 years ago, computers, cell phones, lasers, etc. were all considered sci-fi, although they became sci-fa.
 
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