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The ULTIMATE...

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Pat-inCO

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Feb 21, 2008
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{rant=on}

I'm really bored watching thread after thread on the "ultimate" this or the "very best" that. When
you look at what is really going on, you find there is NO ultimate this or perfect that or very best
anything. What we really end up with is a subjective regurgitation of someone's real or imagined
experience with the subject item.

For anyone's ears that have steam coming out, let me explain. There ARE some very good (others
may say excellent) examples of any given item. I do NOT dispute that. I do say that comments
like "That's a POS" or "Just crap" or "Really lousy" are seldom accurate, for multiple reasons.

1) Take any gun related item and provide it to five people with varying degrees of experience
(includes ALL of us) asking them to evaluate that item. You will get a minimum of three
opinions and probably closer to five. All for the same item. Experience - may - have a lot to do
with that, or very little to do with that, on that particular item. Hand those same five people a
different item and you will get a whole new set of evaluations. They are subjective, i.e. an
opinion based on personal experience or inexperience.

2) Manufacturing tolerances: EVERY item has a tolerance in every component. That is to say
each component will be a certain size, plus or minus some amount. It would be cost prohibitive
to have it any other way (a .22lr could easily cost $1 each if they were all exactly the same).

Hand in hand with that is a function referred to as tolerance build up. That is to say if part A fits
into a slot in part B and part A is on the high side (or slightly over size - they DO NOT inspect
every part) and part B has the slot at the low dimension (or less) they can easily not fit together.
You find that good manufacturing people can easily find parts that will fit together (and do that
quickly) to maintain their production rate. Now what happens when that person is hung-over, or
sick or worried about a pending divorce? You end up with an assembly that "works" but not
quite as expected.


Am I saying that using this forum to get opinions is a waste of time? Not at all. I AM saying that
there is no "ultimate" or "perfect" or "very best" and to ask for one is a waste of time and
bandwidth. Instead ask for opinions on specific items and stipulate "personal experience". That
will weed out most of the "I heard that ....." and "A friend of mine ......." answers that really tell
you nothing. People with good knowledge and experience will, in general, not use profanity and
will qualify their answers; "In my opinion", or "what I found was", or "not really what I wanted",
or "I really liked ......", you get the idea.

There is no "ultimate SD round", nor "best 1911 brand", or "the best.......", they do NOT exist.
There are some very good products and there are some quite knowledgeable individuals on this
board. Structure your questions carefully and you will get a lot more good information.

{rant=off}
 
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Hand in hand with that is a function referred to as tolerance build up. That is to say if part A fits
into a slot in part B and part A is on the high side (or slightly over size - they DO NOT inspect
every part) and part B has the slot at the low dimension (or less) they can easily not fit together.
You find that good manufacturing people can easily find parts that will fit together (and do that
quickly) to maintain their production rate. Now what happens when that person is hung-over, or
sick or worried about a pending divorce? You end up with an assembly that "works" but not
quite as expected.


Not to hijack this thread, but......it seems like in the past guns had a much higher level of something called "fit to finish", etc. Am I nuts, or did people who assembled guns in those years take pride in doing a good job, manufacturing and assembling a product that would be as near perfect as they could get it? A product that wouldn't have to be sent back to the manufacturer for "fixing" stuff that should have been made better?

It seems to me that we could use a return to craftsmanship in this country...just my 2 cents...

BTW, if I am saying something that is incorrect; say if a s&w employee reads this and can offer corrective information, I would love to have my throught process corrected; not to put too fine a point on this, I would like to be wrong...
 
Being a user of the word "ultimate" in many of my threads, I shall explain.
The word "ultimate" like the word "best" and "need" is meaningless without some additional information.
Usually, when I use the word, I assume some parameters:
A): Utilizing a technology level of X.
B): Attempting to fulfill role(s) X (Y, Z...).
When you set those assumptions, then there actually is an "ultimate" or "best", but you have to set them narrow enough.
So... I assume that these are understood. Sometimes, when I think it will not be clear that I mean that, I will outline them a little bit.
So there you have it. Why I use the word "ultimate".
(Plus, it just sounds cool)

There is no "ultimate SD round", nor "best 1911 brand", or "the best.......", they do NOT exist.
Actually, there are. As long as you are specific enough with the situation and technological capabilities. Some cases take such a fine definition of situational parameters as to make the conclusions effectively meaningless for re-use. Some cases, we find, have an "ultimate" solution, but that solution doesn't actually exist yet.
 
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