Thinking about Air Force to National Guard.

[Commissar Gribb]

About half a year back I got interested in joining the army national guard in maine when I get out of active duty USAF (sept '07). I haven't talked to a recruiter yet but I thought I'd see if I can scare up any knowledge from THR. That other guy who asked about basic training seemed to get a lot of good answers.

I've read that If I join the guard as prior enlisted that I won't have to redo basic training but I WILL have to take a 9 week indoctrination course. Does anyone know what this course is like?

Also, hopefully I'll be a full blown E-5 before I get out. I heard that my chances are less to keep my rank than if I'd be a lower rank. It may seem silly, but I think after 6 years of active duty service I should come in as more than a spec-4 like the soldiers coming fresh out of AIT.

Also- any generic army knowledge would be useful. I've never shot (at work) anything bigger than an M16A2.

 

[isp2605]

Look at the Air National Guard. What's your AFSC now? As an E-5 you will almost certainly keep your rank. You won't have to do any additional schools unless you cross train into another AFSC. Maine had a pretty good bunch of ANG guys even tho they went by the nickname "Maine-e-acks".

 

[FPrice]

First question: What's your AFSC?

Second question: What would you want to do in the Army, MOS-wise?

 

[Hoploholic]

Personally, I think that after putting in 4-6 years into the Air Force that the only thing the Army will do for you is piss you off. They treat their people a whole lot differently than us Zoomies do. If you really are interested, go talk to the inservice recruiter on your base and ask him about the Blue-to-Green program. It may only be good for the regular Army, but it might include the Guard also.

I would not worry about the lack of skill with certain weapons platforms. If you decide to go Green and get a combat MOS, you will be going to AIT at the very least.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I can't give you any current information but when I went from the USMC to the Army National Guard it was just a change of uniform. No rank loss, no boot camp, etc.

Prior to that I had already talked to an Army recruiter about enlisting in the Army for flight school. Same thing just a change of uniform.

I finally got an opening in the Army flight school through the National Guard.

Far from losing any rank, I found out later after I completed the Army Warrant Officer Candidate helicopter flight school, I could have been promoted to Warrant Officer before going to the school. There was a point system that took into account that I already had a Private Pilot's license, 8 years in the USMC and USMCR, current rank, etc.

I find it hard to believe that you would have to give up anything to join the Guard from active duty.

 

[garrettwc]

Another vote for Air National Guard.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

I'm a 2S051 (supply management journeyman)

I would like to do small arms repairer but I dont want to wear a blue beret to get there.

the Maine ANG doesnt have my current AFSC available. I would have to go to Mass to get that job. I would have to retrain and there's no guarantee I'd like the job I got.

It may only be good for the regular Army, but it might include the Guard also.

blue to green is

A- only for regular army

B- only for if I haven't completed my enlistment.

Personally, I think that after putting in 4-6 years into the Air Force that the only thing the Army will do for you is piss you off.

perhaps- that's what I'm trying to figure out. I still got 2 years before my DOS anyhow.

If I change services, will I still be able to wear my ribbons/ pins?

 

[Tejas Gunwerks]

"I can't give you any current information but when I went from the USMC to the Army National Guard it was just a change of uniform. No rank loss, no boot camp, etc."

True, remember you went from a REAL branch of the Military into the Guard. Semper Fi.

 

[Moonclip]

I'm pretty sure you can still wear your ribbons/medals you earned in another service. I think I remember prior service people from the USA wearing army ribbons in USN uniforms.

I remember we had an ex marine or two also but some ribbons/medals like the Navy achivement medal cross over anyways.

I considering going in to a reserve or guard service too, but I need to lose some more weight I gained after discharge and I need to research it more first. I'll probably just end up in the naval reserves.

 

[chopinbloc]

here's the poop: you will most likely not be able to keep an e-5 pay grade. in the army e-5 is sergeant, an nco, a leadership position. this requires a school- pldc or primary leadership development course. the standards have recently changed on when pldc needs to be completed so you may be able to slip by on the rank issue. i'm pretty sure you will have to complete basic traing, though as it is completely different from what you learned in the air force. basic training is where you learn all the tasks that every soldier is SUPPOSED to know. examples are emplacing a claymore, buddy aid, land navigation, etc. some air force ribbons and medals are allowed on an army uniform, but not all. i think security forces is a great route, even air guard or reserve, but if you're dead set on army go to the unit that you are considering and attend a weekend drill with them. they'll usually be happy to have you along. this will give you an idea of what you're getting into.

i am army national guard and have been for more than seven years. two years of that time was spent activated for homeland security working with the cops at luke afb. the air force treats their troops WAY better than the army does. even while we were there, our leadership kept trying to screw us while their leadership took us in as their own. i really wanted to transfer over to air guard security forces when the mission was over with as my ets date had already passed but there were no slots available. i strongly recommend sf. they have great esprit de corps, they are very professional and are one of the few combat arms in the air force.

 

[Thin Black Line]

If you go Army National Guard, prepare to eat sand for a year.

 

[zman]

I have no idea about the rank issues (I have been out of the Army since '93) but from what I saw of an Air Force base once somewhere in the CA desert (no idea of the name, just worked there for a day on the way to railhead in Yuma) you are in for a big culture shock. If you are prepared for that you should have a decent time in the Army or Guard or whatever you eventually decide on.

 

[bogie]

If you're guard, there's a DARN GOOD chance you're gonna get asked to go somewhere else long-term. It ain't just weekends anymore.

How old are you?

You say you've got six years in. I _wish_ I just had 14 more years to go until retirement. And I'm 44.

Stay in, take any bonuses, bank 'em, and pull the pin in 20.

If you're married, ask your wife if she's in this for the long-term. Yeah, that's one of those questions. But if you suck up for a while, and you can take advantage of a LOT of military benefits while you're at it, you come out way ahead.

What I also don't understand are the folks who have a problem with military discipline - you've gotta have discipline ANYWHERE.

 

[chopinbloc]

one more thing. i've known quite a few marines, navy and regular army folks who went army guard. can't say as i've ever met a zoomie who went army guard, but when i was working with the security forces i met alot of folks who joined the air force after the army.

what does that tell you? not trying to be overly negative. i think i'll stay in for twenty. shoot, when this contract's up, i'll have thirteen in so i might as well. i just want you to be sure of what you're getting into.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

True, remember you went from a REAL branch of the Military into the Guard. Semper Fi.

I suppose we'll just let the marines handle our ICBMs, heavy bombers and the like from now on then eh?

Maybe they'd just replace em all with ospreys

here's the poop: you will most likely not be able to keep an e-5 pay grade. in the army e-5 is sergeant, an nco, a leadership position. this requires a school- pldc or primary leadership development course. the standards have recently changed on when pldc needs to be completed so you may be able to slip by on the rank issue.

Next year If I get my line number I should be going to Airman Leadership School(basically the air force version).

i'm pretty sure you will have to complete basic traing, though as it is completely different from what you learned in the air force. basic training is where you learn all the tasks that every soldier is SUPPOSED to know. examples are emplacing a claymore, buddy aid, land navigation, etc.

sounds like boy scout camp! LOL

pretty much everything I read says "no basic training- but you take a 9 week course with others prior service to get you up to date". Whether this is taught by DI's I dont know.

some air force ribbons and medals are allowed on an army uniform, but not all. i think security forces is a great route, even air guard or reserve,

I have no problem with SFS, just being a gate guard for a year so that I can fix guns seems kinda silly. I'll have to look into it.

but if you're dead set on army go to the unit that you are considering and attend a weekend drill with them. they'll usually be happy to have you along. this will give you an idea of what you're getting into.

that's a good idea! maybe I'll try that when I'm home on leave someday.

erm...

no- I doubt I could wrangle a permissive TDY out of that.

If you're guard, there's a DARN GOOD chance you're gonna get asked to go somewhere else long-term. It ain't just weekends anymore.

It's never been "just about the weekends"has it? What good is a soldier that can only work 4 days a month?

How old are you?

23

You say you've got six years in. I _wish_ I just had 14 more years to go until retirement. And I'm 44.

I WILL have 6 years when I seperate. I'm at 4 now.

ugh! you said the "R" word. Don't really plan on sticking it out with the military that long. I'm not really one for the politics that drive the SNCO corps.

Stay in, take any bonuses, bank 'em, and pull the pin in 20.

I plan on getting out and going to school full time. between shift work and all the additional crap we do... I'd just rather do it part time while I'm going to school.

If you're married,

not married

What I also don't understand are the folks who have a problem with military discipline - you've gotta have discipline ANYWHERE.

No argument here.

what does that tell you? not trying to be overly negative. i think i'll stay in for twenty. shoot, when this contract's up, i'll have thirteen in so i might as well. i just want you to be sure of what you're getting into.

Thanks for the insight. I'm not preparing for 20 years though. I have enough crap behind me that I'd be lucky to put on master. I'll look at the air guard again though... would be nice If I didn't have to learn a new song.

Nobody's gone through this training though? I'd figure someone had gone in the prior service training or whatever.

 

[Zip06]

I have been in the Active Duty Air Force and I have been in the Active Duty Army. I am a Military Retiree.

The Air Force has a different mission and can require a less harsh environment, a more reasonable surpervisory approach and a better work environment. The price you pay for this is slow promotions due to less turnover. An added bonus in the Air Force is that for Officers, if you are not an Academy grad or if you are not rated you are going to do less well.

The Army has a mission that requires more spartan conditions and the nature of the job can tolerate less people problems. The supervisory model usually is geared for the dimmest bulb in the box. Those that have initiative, a brain and can play well with others will be promoted quickly. Those non-combat jobs are where the promotion and bonuses diminish. A "can-do" attitude is mandatory for success.

I wouldn't worry about what rank you went in with. If you are at all competitive you will do well.

 

[Sam]

Commisar,
Go Air Guard. Even if you have to retrain, you will like it a lot better.

PMEwise, Army does not recognize ours and we do not recognize theirs.
Found out the hard way. Ended up doing both!

Sam

 

[NMshooter]

Commissar, unless you want to be combat arms the Army is not for you. There is even more BS in the combat support and combat service support units than the combat arms units. The Army generally runs at an even higher level of BS than the Air Force, as hard as that may be to believe. Regardless of the speciality you end up with it will be a radical change.

A one stripe difference in rank has real meaning in the Army.

I can understand your frustrations if you are part of that mess called flight line operations, but you might consider crosstraining to a different speciality that gets you off the line and out of shift work.

Otherwise perhaps you should make a clean break when you get out and go to college, plenty of ways to make money out there.

 

[0007]

Been there, done that. Did four years as a 303 radar tech in the air force. Got out and tried to go into AF reaserve. Local recruiter couldn't be bothered to look for a slot for me so I join the FLNG with a friend. Went into an Admin company as an admin spec(71L). My last three positions were NCOIC of the BGD IG, then BGD post office and finally the BGD PAO. Had some really good times, made some good friends. Of course that was BEFORE the current troubles(1977-1991). Check out your options and see what they offer. I went in as an E-4 amd finished up as an E-7 which aint all that bad for 12 years.

 

[bogie]

Off Topic

 

[atomchaser]

I have 19 yrs AD in AF. I've been deployed with Marines, Army, and AF. I'd say there are real cultural differences, but motivated smart people will excel in anyone. Just be aware that in todays environment, you have a pretty good chance of doing a year in the sandbox as a reservist. In my experience the AF is a little more tolerant/accepting of individuals differences. It seems like the Army has a paradigm for what they think you should be and if you don't fit into you going to have problems and it's probably appropriate for the nature of what they do, but it might be a shock for an AF guy. I didn't have problem and learned alot from both the Army and Marines, but I was already a field grade officer and wasn't about to take any crap about being a zommie from anybody below the rank of 0-6.

 

[hicksdm]

"I have no problem with SFS, just being a gate guard for a year so that I can fix guns seems kinda silly. I'll have to look into it."

There is alot more to our career field than being a gate guard, in fact in 3-5 years there will only be DOD police on the gates and the active duty guys will work some nuke and base security and the rest of the time be deployed to where ever. Also if you transfer over to Security Forces in order to be CATM you have to be a minimum E-4 with your 5 skill level, which should not take to long. Once you make E-6 though you will be put back on flight working the road or whatever mission your base has. Some E-6 remain doing CATM work and if you where lucky enough to do that then at E-7 it becomes automatic that you return to flight.

 

[04SilverSCFX4]

Here's some study material to help you get your line number. PSSS, just keep it quiet, I would hate for anyone to call "test compromise".