Thinking of trading out XD45 for CZ97

[Col. Plink]

What's in a few letters and numbers anyway?

Hey y'all, I'm hoping to get some feedback on the CZ-97. I know CZ enjoys a good reputation in general, but I have some specific questions.

What's their capacity? This was what originally drew me to the Springfield XD, and I have no complaints with the weapon at all, but think there may be a better choice for me for the follwing reason:

Grip angle. How does the CZ-97 compare to the XD? To Glocks? I held a Glock the other day and it seemed much better suited to my hand because of its greater grip angle than the XD. I have a tendency to push my shots down and a little left with the XD, which I believe is because that's the natural movement of my wrist since I'm having to elevate the barrel from my natural range of movement. This may also be why I shoot so much better with my Browning Buckmark (it has a much greater angle than the XD).

I've seen pictures of the CZ-97 but can't really tell what the grip angle's like versus the Glocks or the SA XD's.

What say you?

 

[David E]

You'll regret it.

While the CZ's are fine guns (altho roughly finished) they have a horribly long trigger reach. Then, once you do reach it, the trigger pull is long, hard and gritty.

If you're shooting "low and left," that's because you are flinching, not because of the gun. Many people seem to shoot non-kicking .22's fine, then flinch with centerfires, so they blame some aspect of the gun. It's not the gun!!

Still, if the Glock points better for you, that would be an acceptable trade, as the trigger reach, as you found, still works for you.

 

[ArmedBear]

Grip angle. How does the CZ-97 compare to the XD?

Very similar.

To Glocks?

Very different. I hate the things, because for me, it's the opposite. Glocks are awkward as hell in my hand, and I shoot a lot of different handguns, from muzzleloaders to semiautos.

But if they work for you...

 

[JLCook]

I have a EAA witness in 45 acp, which is essentially knock off of the CZ. Yes the DA trigger is a long, but the SA trigger is just fine for me ( some creep though). 10 rnd mag vs 13 on the xd. It does fit the hand very well due to the grip shape. Accuracy is good enough if I do my part, when I dont I push my shots left.

 

[schmeky]

I have a EAA witness in 45 acp, which is essentially knock off of the CZ.

No, not really, but I understand what you're saying. I have both, a Witness .45 and a CZ-97. The 97 is quite a bit bigger than the Witness, and in some ways the Witness is more refined than the 97.

Like most semi-autos, the 97 needs some upgrades to extract its accuracy potential, i.e., trigger work and better sights, in my opinion. I suggest you browse around in the CZ Forum, there is a dedicated section for the 97.

You really need to handle a 97 first, before you buy one.

 

[Col. Plink]

So shooting low has nothing to do with not closely matching my hands, and everything to do with flinching? Perhaps a little from column A and a little from column B? I do the same thing with a buddy's .40, from which I expect almost no recoil compared to my .45, which is actually quite manageable.

Another question, how do those out there who own both compare the XD45 to the CZ97? All informed opinions greatly appreciated!

That, and WHAT cz forum??

 

[ArmedBear]

WRT shooting low, no a Glock doesn't make me shoot low. It just FEELS very unnatural. I have to change the angle of my wrist to line up the sights. Once they're lined up, the bullet goes where they are pointed.

 

[David E]

So shooting low has nothing to do with not closely matching my hands,

Correct.

and everything to do with flinching?

Correct again.

Perhaps a little from column A and a little from column B?

No. See answers 1 and 2.

Prove it to your self by having a buddy load a dummy round somewhere, unknown to you, in the magazine and have him watch your muzzle. When it dips low left on the dummy, you'll go......"CRAP! it IS me !"

 

[CZF]

Big, sexy, and super accurate!



Most people shoot the 97B from single action, as it is more of a
target gun than a defensive pistol, but some do carry it.

Look on my CZ-ZONE for pics and info:

http://www.angelfire.com/id/projectsafestarsap/CZ97B.html
------------------------------

Also here:http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?board=16.0

The new 97BD decocker guns are also very, very nice.
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-97-bd/
IF you are thinking 97B, you better buy one before the prices go up even higher.
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-97-b/

 

[David E]

If you have large hands, the loooong trigger reach may not be a problem. But the hard, gritty DA trigger pull is. This can be addressed with an action job, so it if it fits your hand when being held properly, it can work.

For a recreational gun, the CZ would be fine as is, since you can cock the hammer before firing the first shot.

In the pics above, it appears the shooter has rotated his gun hand around a little bit to reach the trigger. The problem(s) with this is that it puts the gun into or near the base of the thumb which makes it harder to point well (it wants to point right) and focuses the recoil into the base of the thumb. This hurts in short order. With proper gripping technique (not shown in the pics) the gun ideally needs to be centered in the web of the hand and the support hand actually providing support.

Any gun that requires YOU to accommodate IT should be relegated to strictly recreational use.......preferably for somebody else!

 

[Col. Plink]

I actually have some other things at work physiologically; tendonitis that's gone untreated makes ithard to grip well without waggling and so right now tend to yank the trigger which may be pulling me down left. I actually shoot better left handed right now. I probably am pushing down and away against the recoil some too though.

We'll see what happens this evening with a pistol with a long skinny grip instead of a short fat one...

 

[Isher]

Well, subjective prejudice abounds

In all discussions of firearms.

I never had any use for the XD.

That being said, I'll relate a little bit about

P 01's and the 97.

When I started carrying, P 01 was - and still is -

Weapon of choice.

My grip is thumb over thumb, left thumb under and

Right thumb over. No problems with slide interference. Left

Forefinger "floating" on the forward face of the trigger guard.

The palm of my left hand is against the side of the butt, not under.

Then, I get a 97; much bigger weapon.

The P 01 grip is not working well.

Und so, I end up with this:

Thumb under thumb, both pointed forward, left hand pinky and

A portion of my palm under the bottom of the butt.

I don't have to reach for the trigger, and I'm not

Pulling the gun one way or the other.

By the way, the trigger is grease sweet, after I broke it in some.

The really nice thing about the 97 is that, recoilwise,

It hardly budges from one shot to the next, as opposed to

The P 01, which has a pretty whippy muzzle jump.

I carry the 97 @ half cock, as it has a safety, not a decocker.

The P 01's I carry full cock, as they are decockers.

So, two different guns, two different grips.

But, at the end of the day, for me it is simply what the gun likes best,

As delivered to target.

My opinion is that for ergonomics, reliability, accuracy and price

CZ's are the most under rated gun on the market.

Which means, as they are "discovered"

The price is gonna go through the moon.


isher

 

[kanewpadle]

Keep the XD.

The CZ is a nice gun but heavy. The grip is rather large. And I have heard from several owners that they with only feed FMJ reliably.

I guess it would be ok for target shooting but that's about it. And I bet the XD is just as accurate.

I traded my first XD 45 and missed it so much I got another.

 

[schmeky]

The CZ is a nice gun but heavy. The grip is rather large.

Correct. The weight makes for an excellent range gun, recoil is negligible for a .45

And I have heard from several owners that they with only feed FMJ reliably.

Incorrect. The wide cavity HP's can cause problems, you have to find the HP's it likes. Nothing against the XD, but there have been problems with it feeding the popular H&G #68 200 gn LSWC. The 97 feeds this bullet effortlessly.

I guess it would be ok for target shooting but that's about it. And I bet the XD is just as accurate.

If the XD will do 1.5-2.0" @ 25 yards from a sandbag rest, this would be correct. For a moderate investment, the 97 can be made to shoot with custom guns costing thousands more.

 

[David E]

I carry the 97 @ half cock, as it has a safety, not a decocker.

The P 01's I carry full cock, as they are decockers.

This sounds backwards.

Or do you really carry the P 01 with the hammer fully cocked, no safety engaged, ready to drop at the first light pull on the trigger?

 

[kanewpadle]

Correct. The weight makes for an excellent range gun, recoil is negligible for a .45




Incorrect. The wide cavity HP's can cause problems, you have to find the HP's it likes. Nothing against the XD, but there have been problems with it feeding the popular H&G #68 200 gn LSWC. The 97 feeds this bullet effortlessly.




If the XD will do 1.5-2.0" @ 25 yards from a sandbag rest, this would be correct. For a moderate investment, the 97 can be made to shoot with custom guns costing thousands more.

Get over yourself.

I was sharing what has happened here locally. So don't tell me whether I am correct or not. You may have one of many that just happen to work like they should.

Nothing wrong with either gun. For carry the XD has the edge. For target shooting the CZ is favorable.

Before you get your panties in a bunch just remember we are comparing two totally different guns which happen to shoot 45 ACP.

 

[kanewpadle]

What's in a few letters and numbers anyway?

Hey y'all, I'm hoping to get some feedback on the CZ-97. I know CZ enjoys a good reputation in general, but I have some specific questions.

What's their capacity? This was what originally drew me to the Springfield XD, and I have no complaints with the weapon at all, but think there may be a better choice for me for the follwing reason:

Grip angle. How does the CZ-97 compare to the XD? To Glocks? I held a Glock the other day and it seemed much better suited to my hand because of its greater grip angle than the XD. I have a tendency to push my shots down and a little left with the XD, which I believe is because that's the natural movement of my wrist since I'm having to elevate the barrel from my natural range of movement. This may also be why I shoot so much better with my Browning Buckmark (it has a much greater angle than the XD).

I've seen pictures of the CZ-97 but can't really tell what the grip angle's like versus the Glocks or the SA XD's.

What say you?

Col.Plink

Most people have never seen a CZ 97 let alone shoot one. So you may not get many replies here.

If you want a plinker, make the trade. If it's for home defense, make the trade.

But if it's for carrying, don't make the trade.

Or, keep the XD and look for a EAA Witness Match. The grip is a little smaller. Still holds 10 rounds 45 ACP. Has SA only trigger with is better than the CZ. And is equally as accurate as the CZ. Maybe more so. The Witness is also available in 9MM, 40SW, and 10MM.

 

[Ash]

The Witness Match will have a longer slide but smaller grip while using the same magazines.

I, personally, am a tremendous CZ fan, but not in .45. I like the 97 alot and would gladly own one, but every time push comes to shove I end up with a Tanfoglio.

 

[commygun]

I'm one of those who had an unreliable CZ-97. With more than 6 rounds in the magazine it would absolutely not feed hollowpoints. This was true with four different magazines from two different manufacturers. Very nicely made, handsome gun but I traded it for a P225 and didn't look back.

 

[Ash]

Heh, I had a 225 that wouldn't feed hollow points...

Don't have it anymore. Early 97's did not feed hollow points well, but that got fixed in short order and 97's are known for being very reliable.

Ash

 

[CZF]

The 97B was never designed to feed HPs as they are banned in the CZech Republic.

Mine fed everything I could throw into it, just to darned heavy to ccw for hours at a time.

Can say the same for my 10mm Witness.

 

[juk]

If the 97 has HP feeding issues, you can polish the ramp and that helps very much. My trigger started off a tad rough, but smoothed out very quickly. The grip is large, but there are slimmer grips that can be purchased. The gun is heavy, but that makes for less recoil. Accuracy is better than any other handgun I have shot. The grip angle doesn't look very trendy but it is actually very comfortable. Unfortunately I can't say much about the XD. I have been shyed away by my friends XD in 357 sig. It is an awesome gun for making noise, but don't expect it to hit anything unless you have the muzzle touching it. I keep telling him to send it back to the factory but he is a bonehead and won't do it. I'm sure that it is a problem that could be warranted by the factory. A modern gun with less than 250rds through it should be able to reliably hit a 18x18 piece of paper at 25 yards.

 

[Pilot]

While the CZ's are fine guns (altho roughly finished) they have a horribly long trigger reach. Then, once you do reach it, the trigger pull is long, hard and gritty.

I have three CZ's and none of them have what you describe. I have large hands so I prefer a long trigger reach, but if its a problem, many CZ-75 variants can be carried at the half notch or fully cocked and locked which eliminates the trigger reach issue if you have small hands. In any event, a trigger job is easy to get if you happen to get a gritty trigger.

My CZ's are also well finished, beautifully made pistols.

 

[Col. Plink]

So, to reiterate, I'm hoping to find out what capacity CZ's in .45acp have, and what he opinions are of new CZ's in .45 generally. I only knew about the 97 (what's the difference w/ 97b?), so if there are others please weigh in, CZ owners.

Reason I'm asking is that I'm wondering if I need my .45 at all, especially if it has a grip angle that makes it more difficult for me to line up the sights. I discovered this this morning while shooting my CZ-52. I'm probably not lining the front sight up high enough with the rear sight, or at least it takes a somewhat uncomfortable effort. The CZ is smaller, just as potent, and I can get CHEAP surplus ammo for it (and it's a sweet C&R example). I can still probably get what I paid for the XD45T and probably a little more for the ammo (took a lot of time collecting a few boxes at a time from the big stores). And for carry the CZ has an actual thumb safety, though I know there are ways to holster/draw XD's that make them almost as safe.

 

[Ash]

The CZ will have a 10 round capacity. It has the best, most natural grip in the industry if you have medium to larger hands. Current ones are reliable and feed hollow points just fine. They use the same magazines as EAA Witnesses. They are very, very accurate handguns.

Ash