This should get your blood boiling...

[CoalTrain49]

Are you conflating paid or guided hunts with trophy hunting or sport hunting?

The cost of a deer tag on public land is the same if you shoot a smaller young buck or an ancient bruiser.

I know plenty of people who pay a guide or a fee to hunt does or cows on private land too.

Here’s a PSA, if you paid for a hunting license and you hunted by definition you are sport hunting. You can call it whatever you want but you have participated in the sport of hunting. Whether you are purely hunting for meat or are being selective and trying to put a head on the wall.

If “sport” hunting does die off and license fees and taxes from the Pittman act go away you’ll very soon find that wildlife will disappear.

I find it strange that anybody would want to support the destruction of wildlife.

Not sure what your point is. Most of the people I know hunt for sport, not for subsistence. If you don't hunt for subsistence, you're hunting for sport. I'll say trophy hunting, guided or otherwise is the same as sport hunting. The cost to hunt is out of reach for many people these days. License fees, accesses fees, gear, ammo, travel, lodging, etc. all adds up to way more than the cost of 100 lbs. of meat. Many people don't know how to process the meat anyway. They take it to a meat packer and pay them to do it.

There is a lot of sport fishing where I live. I know people who have purchased a 25K boat to catch a dozen salmon every year. They crab also so we have to throw that in. I smoke a lot of salmon every year, 30 lbs last year, but I don't own a boat and I don't pay the state to license one. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to troll in the same water that native gill netter just past through when I can buy salmon for $10/lb.

This state isn't helping sport hunting or fishing either. They've banned lead shot from release sites and now want to ban it statewide for upland. They've made it impossible to understand the regulations. Every unit has it's own regulations regarding modern firearm, archery, or black powder and dates for each one. Same for sport fishing. This state is killing sport hunting and fishing with their ever increasing demand for revenue. It would be one thing if there were more opportunities for hunters and anglers, but there isn't.

 

[Scooter22]

I think the UN shouldn't worry about highly regulated leagle hunting in SA. They should look at some of the neighboring countries where they hand children a AK to be a soldier. Thats psychological abuse.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Not sure what your point is. Most of the people I know hunt for sport, not for subsistence. If you don't hunt for subsistence, you're hunting for sport. I'll say trophy hunting, guided or otherwise is the same as sport hunting. The cost to hunt is out of reach for many people these days. License fees, accesses fees, gear, ammo, travel, lodging, etc. all adds up to way more than the cost of 100 lbs. of meat. Many people don't know how to process the meat anyway. They take it to a meat packer and pay them to do it.

There is a lot of sport fishing where I live. I know people who have purchased a 25K boat to catch a dozen salmon every year. They crab also so we have to throw that in. I smoke a lot of salmon every year, 30 lbs last year, but I don't own a boat and I don't pay the state to license one. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to troll in the same water that native gill netter just past through when I can buy salmon for $10/lb.

This state isn't helping sport hunting or fishing either. They've banned lead shot from release sites and now want to ban it statewide for upland. They've made it impossible to understand the regulations. Every unit has it's own regulations regarding modern firearm, archery, or black powder and dates for each one. Same for sport fishing. This state is killing sport hunting and fishing with their ever increasing demand for revenue. It would be one thing if there were more opportunities for hunters and anglers, but there isn't.

After re reading your post I’m not 100% sure I knew what my point was either. Seems we are in agreement.

BTW

What state are you in?

 

[CoalTrain49]

After re reading your post I’m not 100% sure I knew what my point was either. Seems we are in agreement.

BTW

What state are you in?

WA.

 

[H&Hhunter]

WA.

Much like CO…..Lots of the same garbage going on.

 

[IWAC]

Well yes...take them a time or two, and they may begin to LIKE it, leading to life-long maladjustment!

 

[22250Rem]

Which is ridiculous. Some of the most well adjusted people I have met, hunted, trapped, and fished as children. This is more of the globalist drive toward vegan human populations.

Couldn't have said it better myself. There's a lot of truth to that statement, at least in my life experiences.

 

[buck460XVR]

This state isn't helping sport hunting or fishing either. They've banned lead shot from release sites and now want to ban it statewide for upland. They've made it impossible to understand the regulations. Every unit has it's own regulations regarding modern firearm, archery, or black powder and dates for each one. Same for sport fishing. This state is killing sport hunting and fishing with their ever increasing demand for revenue. It would be one thing if there were more opportunities for hunters and anglers, but there isn't.

I hear the same complaint from hunters in my state. They whine about having to buy a trout or pheasant stamp, yet they want to go to heavily pressured habitat and catch trout or shoot pheasants. Go to a game farm or fish farm and see what it costs per fish and/or bird. Cost of one is more that the cost of the stamp. While I too see the ever increasing demand for revenue, how else is the state going to pay for enforcement and habitat improvement. How else are they going to deal with CWD and stream bank degradation/water quality? Most deer hunters I know, spend more on deer scent every year that they do for their deer license. Most spend more on ammo and other equipment that their license, not to mention food plot costs and corn for bait. The cost of one diaphragm turkey call is now more than the cost of a turkey stamp/tag here....yet most turkey hunters buy several new call every year. They have no problem at all paying $10 a shell for new fangled turkey loads, but whine about having to spend $20 for a turkey license and stamp. As for the regulations, it's not that hard to know what they are for the area you are hunting. Used to be you needed a pamphlet available only at the store that sold licenses. Now all you have to do is Google. The old bag/size limits for the whole state, while simpler, just don't work. The decimate some area populations, while allowing some to get to problem numbers in others. They lead to stunted fish and unbalanced ecosystems, where habitat is destroyed for years. Knowing what the size/bag limit for trout in a specific stream is not that difficult if folks really care, about the fishery. Same for game animals. Those different regs are making for more opportunities, not less. They are making the resource last for your kids and grandkids. As for more opportunities, there certainly could be....but guess what? it would cost you more. Folks whine around here that there is not enough public land to hunt, yet good hunting land goes for about $5000 an acre. For the state to obtain more, you are talking a user fee or higher license fees. Same goes for catching more trout. More stocking costs more monies. Don't want the stamp fees and license fees to go up....practice more catch and release.

Around here, the opportunity to shoot a trophy whitetail or catch a Musky over 50" is greater now than ever. While much has to do with the conservation practices of the hunters/fishers themselves, what the state has done for these resources is just as important. Protecting the habitat and enforcement of size/bag limits has made it so those opportunities are available to more folks than ever. But that cost monies. That also means we must have rules. Not having either is what is going to kill hunting, not only in my state, but yours too.

 

[41 Mag]

To the UN well my personal feelings about them are they are simply past their usefulness other than to argue one to another. The rest of the time it seems like they want to create one world order, but that is another discussion altogether.

I do not agree with the OP outline of creating warped children. There are millions of people who grew up in rural environments where they raised chickens, hogs, and beef for food. Yes little Johnny got to witness first hand Porky tha piglet, or Starlight the chick, grow up to be set out on the table, and all the while they knew the why it was being done.

I personally have been hunting since I can remember. My whole family hunted deer, turkey, squirrel, and whatever else. They combined things so that everyone got a portion of the yearly harvest. We did our own butchering for a while and not much if anything went to waste. As for "trophy" hunting, well there was always the yearly "bull of the woods" but nothing like we have nowadays. My first "big" buck was just at 18" outside, and now we have them exceeding that regularly. I worked on several high fenced ranches through the years that had imposed mature 5yr old 8 point or better restrictions. These were managed usually by the Wildlife dept giving us a kill count to keep the buck - doe ratios close, and to manage the numbers to what the land could support. Everything had to be noted when something was taken of either sex.

Having my own property, and hunting with friends on theirs you can easily and quickly se how fast things get out of hand. With regard to allowing other to come hunt, even those invited ones. It usually started off innocent enough, then there was the bits of trash or debris left here and there. Then you find things like gates being left open or gut piles upon arriving on the weekend. Come to find out that while you allowed Johnny to come hunt or fish, he considered that an open invitation, and figured you wouldn't mind him bringing his bud as well. His bud of course figures you hospitable enough, so he just shows up during the week so as to not be a third wheel on the weekend, and besides he is just hunting "A" deer or catching a "FEW" fish.

The problem is when something happens to someone and as innocent as it all started, things head south and you wind up in court due to people being litigious and having no fault of their own. So even though they were trespassing, it is your fault they got hurt on your property and you are responsible. That is now why most private property is just that. All folks are not like that, but it only takes the one and your out a considerable sum of money or even the property for that matter.

My family has worked hard to get what we have and spent the time, effort and finances to keep it up and provide the deer, birds, and other critters cover, and security to keep them around. We have some really NICE bucks, and a small herd of does that hang around. We supplement feed to help them out, and we have taken the older does on a yearly basis as have the neighbors. We have allowed the buck to grow so we now have a mixed age group ranging up to around 8yrs old. We aren't "trophy" hunters but if one is exceptional it might end up on the wall just for the sake of preserving it. We utilize as much as we can honestly trim off of one when it is taken. Heck the coyotes hardly mess with the bones. We grind all of the trimmings, and steak out the rest.

My daughter started out when she was 5-6yrs old. My oldest grandson got his first hog two weeks ahead of his 4th birthday and the next two in line followed suit with does off our little farm. They have all been straight A & B students, with good work ethics. Going back through my family history, my grandmother had 10 kids, 5 boys and 5 girls. They were raised through the end of the depression and WW2 with no father. They hunted for a reason and sport wasn't in their vocabulary until football and baseball in high school. My grandma had a recipe for just about everything that walked, crawled, flew or swam, and it usually started with hot grease and salt and pepper. They grew their own garden and raised their own livestock in various forms. Just the way it was, and the way it was instilled. We were all raised that if it was taken from the field it was going on the table, and that's just the way it was and has been.

The UN was once something that might have worked, but it has become infiltrated with one view characters who have a different view of things nowadays.

 

[hawg]

What I consider trophy hunting is putting a head on a wall whether you use the meat or not. To me it's disrespectful to the animal and is nothing more than bragging. I'll pass up a trophy buck to take a doe every chance I get and I've cut up antlers from trophy deer to make something out of them.

 

[.308 Norma]

I'll pass up a trophy buck to take a doe every chance I get and I've cut up antlers from trophy deer to make something out of them.

Shooting does is generally illegal here (unless you're 16 years or under) but if I have a choice, I too will pass up a large 4-point mule deer buck in favor of a good sized 2-point because I (and my wife) think 2-point mule deer are the best eating. Besides, we already have a stack of 4 to 6-point mule deer racks in a corner in the basement. I always intended to "do something" with those antlers, but you know - the "best intentions" and all that. For the most part, we can't even remember which mule deer rack goes along with which hunting trip anymore.

 

[hawg]

Shooting does is generally illegal here

We can take five and can even take them all on the same day.

 

[.308 Norma]

We can take five and can even take them all on the same day.

I don't know what that would be like. There was a year or two back in the '90s (I think) when we were allowed 2 deer a year (as long as one of them was a doe) but that's the only time I can remember being allowed more than 1 deer, and I've been hunting deer (mule deer) in Idaho for better than 60 years now.
For that matter, annually only 1 in 3 Idaho deer hunters even gets a deer. From what I've seen here on THR, eastern and southern deer hunters can't comprehend how lousy the odds of getting a deer out here in Idaho really are.
On the other hand, there's a lot of elk (Rocky Mountain Elk) here, and while one bull can go 700lbs on the hoof, even a large cow can weigh 500lbs on the hoof. And elk are not that hard to find if you know where to look and have access to the right areas. The problem is, neither my wife nor I like elk meat as much as we like mule deer meat - as hard as that is for some people to believe.

 

[hawg]

I don't know what that would be like. There was a year or two back in the '90s (I think) when we were allowed 2 deer a year (as long as one of them was a doe) but that's the only time I can remember being allowed more than 1 deer, and I've been hunting deer (mule deer) in Idaho for better than 60 years now.
For that matter, annually only 1 in 3 Idaho deer hunters even gets a deer. From what I've seen here on THR, eastern and southern deer hunters can't comprehend how lousy the odds of getting a deer out here in Idaho really are.
On the other hand, there's a lot of elk (Rocky Mountain Elk) here, and while one bull can go 700lbs on the hoof, even a large cow can weigh 500lbs on the hoof. And elk are not that hard to find if you know where to look and have access to the right areas. The problem is, neither my wife nor I like elk meat as much as we like mule deer meat - as hard as that is for some people to believe.

When I was young we had doe day and could only kill one. We even had to have tags back then. We still can't take but two bucks and about 8 years ago they hit us with antler restrictions. A 10 inch spread or a 13 inch main beam.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I hear the same complaint from hunters in my state. They whine about having to buy a trout or pheasant stamp, yet they want to go to heavily pressured habitat and catch trout or shoot pheasants. Go to a game farm or fish farm and see what it costs per fish and/or bird. Cost of one is more that the cost of the stamp. While I too see the ever increasing demand for revenue, how else is the state going to pay for enforcement and habitat improvement. How else are they going to deal with CWD and stream bank degradation/water quality? Most deer hunters I know, spend more on deer scent every year that they do for their deer license. Most spend more on ammo and other equipment that their license, not to mention food plot costs and corn for bait. The cost of one diaphragm turkey call is now more than the cost of a turkey stamp/tag here....yet most turkey hunters buy several new call every year. They have no problem at all paying $10 a shell for new fangled turkey loads, but whine about having to spend $20 for a turkey license and stamp. As for the regulations, it's not that hard to know what they are for the area you are hunting. Used to be you needed a pamphlet available only at the store that sold licenses. Now all you have to do is Google. The old bag/size limits for the whole state, while simpler, just don't work. The decimate some area populations, while allowing some to get to problem numbers in others. They lead to stunted fish and unbalanced ecosystems, where habitat is destroyed for years. Knowing what the size/bag limit for trout in a specific stream is not that difficult if folks really care, about the fishery. Same for game animals. Those different regs are making for more opportunities, not less. They are making the resource last for your kids and grandkids. As for more opportunities, there certainly could be....but guess what? it would cost you more. Folks whine around here that there is not enough public land to hunt, yet good hunting land goes for about $5000 an acre. For the state to obtain more, you are talking a user fee or higher license fees. Same goes for catching more trout. More stocking costs more monies. Don't want the stamp fees and license fees to go up....practice more catch and release.

Around here, the opportunity to shoot a trophy whitetail or catch a Musky over 50" is greater now than ever. While much has to do with the conservation practices of the hunters/fishers themselves, what the state has done for these resources is just as important. Protecting the habitat and enforcement of size/bag limits has made it so those opportunities are available to more folks than ever. But that cost monies. That also means we must have rules. Not having either is what is going to kill hunting, not only in my state, but yours too.

Around here, the opportunity to shoot a trophy whitetail or catch a Musky over 50" is greater now than ever.

I'm glad your state is doing such a wonderful job. This is what our salmon harvest looks like by year.

Two species of Chinook are on the endangered species list. The rest are listed as threatened. About 20 years ago I could catch a Coho from the beach 2 miles from my house. Those days are gone boys, and they aren't coming back.

Pheasants about the same sad story.

Hunting for the elusive rooster is getting tougher as the years go by

“How the mighty have fallen.” That might be a good epitaph to pheasant hunting in Washington state.

columbiabasinherald.com

I keep up on the decline of opportunities in this state. I used to hunt pheasants in eastern WA and fish my local waters every year. The juice just wasn't worth squeeze any more and mostly all of it is attributed to poor state management.

 

[buck460XVR]

I'm glad your state is doing such a wonderful job. This is what our salmon harvest looks like by year.

I'm glad too. I think they do a great job considering the obstacles they have to deal with. Many of those obstacles are beyond their control........like with the situation with your salmon.

One of the largest factors inhibiting salmon recovery is habitat loss, Mr. Neatherlin said. A growing human population has led to development along the shoreline, and the addition of bulkheads, or sea walls, that encroach on beaches where salmon generally find insects and other food. More pavement and hard surfaces have contributed to an increase in toxic storm water runoff that pollutes Puget Sound.
More than 20,000 barriers — including dams, roads and water storage structures — block salmon migration paths in Washington alone, according to the state’s Department of Fish and Wildlife.
The waters they swim in are warming — in 2015, unusually warm water killed an estimated 250,000 sockeye salmon — and there is less cold water to feed streams in the summer, the report said, because slowly rising temperatures have accelerated the melting of glaciers.

Loss of habitat compounded by climate change has created a dire situation for salmon, Mr. Neatherlin said.

Your DNR/F&W has little control over climate change or loss of habitat due to human development.

Pheasants about the same sad story.

Same here in Wisconsin. As a boy in the 60s and 70s, opening day of pheasant season was like opening day of deer season, with folks parked all over staking out their spot for the noon opening. Most every farm had a few natives and along with socked birds, there were always birds to hunt if you hunted hard enough. Not anymore.....you either hunt heavily hunted public land where stock birds last a few days or you pay big bucks to hunt a preserve. What little good habitat is left on private land is inaccessible. Our scenario is similar to yours and a quote from your link tells the sad story....

What has caused this change? A combination of habitat loss and changing agricultural practices. Development has certainly cut into the areas pheasants once roamed in our state but modern farming has really put a damper on wild pheasant populations. Back in the 1970s, farmers might only cut an alfalfa field once, whereas now it is cut several times over the spring, summer and fall, which impacts pheasant chick survivability. Likewise, certain crops like sugar beets, favored by pheasants for the cover provided in the fields where they grow, are no longer being planted due to a lack of demand. Finally, farmers are making the most of their acreage. In the old days there were areas along ditches and fence rows and the corners of property that retained cover for birds to hide in after the main fields were harvested. Today, farmers are able to use more of the ground they possess to grow crops and these corner, ditch and fence cover areas have disappeared.

.....again obstacles beyond the control of your DNR/F&G.

....as I said in my first post, much of what has helped our deer hunting and fishery here, is control and conservation by hunters and anglers themselves. Hunters passing on small bucks or not taking does when there seems not to be enough. Most real Bass and Musky anglers never take a fish home all season long. They have self imposed limits that are even stricter than the state's. They know you can't deplete a population and then hope it comes back the next year. These self imposed size/bag limits along with following game laws/regs is what is key.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I'm glad too. I think they do a great job considering the obstacles they have to deal with. Many of those obstacles are beyond their control........like with the situation with your salmon.



Your DNR/F&W has little control over climate change or loss of habitat due to human development.




Same here in Wisconsin. As a boy in the 60s and 70s, opening day of pheasant season was like opening day of deer season, with folks parked all over staking out their spot for the noon opening. Most every farm had a few natives and along with socked birds, there were always birds to hunt if you hunted hard enough. Not anymore.....you either hunt heavily hunted public land where stock birds last a few days or you pay big bucks to hunt a preserve. What little good habitat is left on private land is inaccessible. Our scenario is similar to yours and a quote from your link tells the sad story....



.....again obstacles beyond the control of your DNR/F&G.

....as I said in my first post, much of what has helped our deer hunting and fishery here, is control and conservation by hunters and anglers themselves. Hunters passing on small bucks or not taking does when there seems not to be enough. Most real Bass and Musky anglers never take a fish home all season long. They have self imposed limits that are even stricter than the state's. They know you can't deplete a population and then hope it comes back the next year. These self imposed size/bag limits along with following game laws/regs is what is key.

The state here is responsible for many of the problems. For example, it took WA 5 years to restrict salmon farming after the first accidental release. Funny how AK, OR and CA all knew many years ago that it was dangerous to native fish and restricted it before an ecological disaster.

The state allows farmers in E. WA to lease public land to grow crops and block public access to that land. Thousands of acres of land that should be preserved for habitat and hunting, but it isn't. Farmers have the attitude that it's their property. I confronted one about that years ago who posted some state (public) land. Revenue stream from wheat farmers probably has something to do with it.

True, they can't reverse global warming but they don't care enough to even change the things they can.

I'm not a newcomer to WA. I started hunting and fishing here in 1975. Your assessment of the problem is partially correct but a good amount of the blame can be put squarely on state agencies. That's the consensus of almost everyone here who hunts or fishes who's been here for awhile.

 

[Paul7]

Yet the globalists are fine with the trans agenda and aborting kids by the million.