Thoughts on Background Checks for private sales?

[razorback2003]

Why not a background check for people buying cars to see if they are repeat DWI offenders? What about a background check for people buying beer and whiskey to see if they have been convicted of public intox or DWI?

 

[thump_rrr]

In Canada we do not have the 2nd Amendment as you do in the USA so we don't have a "right" to bear arms.

Handguns are considered restricted class firearms so you must have a restricted class license.
You first take a course and complete a written and practical test which affirms that you know how to load, secure, transport and store your handgun.

Once you pass the test you send in your application for your restricted license which includes your photo and the names and phone numbers of two of your friends who will act as character witnesses.

Within 28 days a background check is done your character witnesses are called and if all goes well you now have your restricted permit.
The cost is $80 for 5 years.

The fun part is that if I want to purchase or sell a handgun from or to anyone in Canada all I have to do is call in with my name and permit number. There is a file generated and then the second part calls to complete the transfer.
Once the transfer is complete I can drop the handgun off at the post office and ship it Canada Post with signature confirmation. No FFL no fees no nothing.

It's not a perfect system and not anonymous but you are sure you are selling to someone who is not a prohibited person, that the gun is not stolen, and there is no cost to either party.

 

[Skribs]

So, Thump, if you wanted to buy a handgun from me, what's to keep me from saying "sure, I think you look like a trustworthy guy, let's just cut through that red tape and I'll sell it to you now."

 

[thump_rrr]

So, Thump, if you wanted to buy a handgun from me, what's to keep me from saying "sure, I think you look like a trustworthy guy, let's just cut through that red tape and I'll sell it to you now."

Other than it being illegal there would be a handgun out there floating around with your name connected to the serial number.
You would have a lot of explaining to do if it was used in the comission of a crime.

I'm not saying illegal guns aren't floating around out there but I can't see them previously being registered in Canada unless they were stolen.

EDIT I live very close to Vermont and I am a member at a gun club in the state.
Vermont has some of the least restrictive gun laws in the USA.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of gun violence in Vermont.
This would lead me to believe that there is no correlation between the availability of firearms and violence.

 

[jim243]

I am all for your right to own and keep a handgun or rifle, but in reading the posts on this topic I am starting to wonder "what are you afraid of or hiding"!!!!

If I want to drive a car, I have to get a drivers lic, if I want to fly a personal aircraft, I have to get a pilot's lic, if I want to run a business, I have to get a business lic, if I want to cut hair and charge for it, I have to get a beautician's Lic.

If you want to go shoot up a Church, Movie theater or shopping center, you think you should not need to get a background check????

I don't mind you being pro-gun, just don't be pro-ostrich and say it is none of your concern.

Maybe we would have fewer gun laws if we started taking resonsibilty for the people that we sold our firearms to. Yes, it is a pain to have a 5 min background check done by computer, but it takes me longer to pour a cup of coffee then it does to get a background check done.

Jim

 

[Ryanxia]

Jim243

Yes, it is a pain to have a 5 min background check done by computer

Problem is most places aren't 5 minutes. Several gunshops take 1hour + (as I discovered recently at a shop I don't usually go to).

The focus should be on gun free zones, they don't work and make criminals the only ones with guns.
The Oregon shooting was with a stolen gun, but if just one citizen carrying a gun had seen him in the parking lot and taken him out there wouldn't be such a loss of life.

 

[alsaqr]

I am all for your right to own and keep a handgun or rifle, but in reading the posts on this topic I am starting to wonder "what are you afraid of or hiding"!!!!

Thanks for the insinuation.

Why should i jump through hoops in order to sell my legally owned private property to a person who can legally buy my property?

Last time this "gunshow loophole" stuff was proposed in congress it was draconaian gun control at its finest.

 

[Skribs]

Jim, I don't have ostrichitis even though I do take the attitude of "not my problem."

The reason is that there are so many ways around "the system", including other weapons not covered under gun control laws and other ways to get weapons, as well as ways simply through the system for people who are not yet convicted of a violent offense, that we're making the vast majority of gun owners (legal owners) have to prove themselves innocent every time they want to buy another tool.

I realize that that mass murderer can buy a can of gas and a lighter. That domestic abuser can grab a bat or a kitchen knife instead of a gun. That mugger can use a tire iron or a switchblade. And yet, when there is an arson, I don't see people trying to regulate gas. When there is a stabbing, I don't see people trying to regulate cutlery. When there is a bludgeoning, people don't try and ban baseball or have the FBI regulate automotive shops. When there is a drunk driver convicted of vehicular manslaughter, people don't try to ban alcohol OR require the populace to use bicycles. Shootings are the ONLY crimes where the tool is blamed.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Jim, one can legally own and operate a motor vehicle without a license.

One can legally own and operate a personal aircraft without a license.


In any case, background checks are one of those feel good laws that really have not made a whole lot of difference.

If a person wants to shoot up a school, church, shopping mall, etc it really isn't that hard. Guns can be purchased illegally and the seller may be none the wiser. In my state, I can buy any long gun from a private party, no questions asked, no paperwork or registration. The seller might not know me from Adam, and might not know or ask if I am a prohibited person. Guns can be stolen. Guns can be borrowed from a friend or relative.

Guns can be acquired, illegally, in many ways. But to punish the masses for the sins of the few is wrong. Legislating to the lowest common denominator is how slaves are made. My sig line translates 'I prefer liberty with danger to peace through slavery.' Freedom is not peaceful or is it easy. Liberty comes with a price, and that price is dealing with those who want to restrict your liberty. We can give up our freedom and liberty to appease the loud minority, or we can stick up for ourselves and for what we know is right. Peace and safety can not legislated into being.

 

[jim243]

Why should i jump through hoops in order to sell my legally owned private property to a person who can legally buy my property?

Have you ever tried to sell a house, now there is red tape by the truck load. (LOL)

These laws are for public safety, when they do not work the only thing they can do is pass more laws that don't work. It is each of our responsibility to make sure we do the right thing and sell to the right person, that is what FFL's try to do, why shouldn't we.

Jim

 

[Guy de Loimbard]

I used to have to deal with background checks for FTF sales. It was not enjoyable in the least. I moved to Arkansas from Michigan earlier this year. In MI, in order to buy a handgun (did not matter if you were buying FTF or from an FFL), you had to go to the police station, have a background check run, answer a "safety questionnaire", and if you passed they gave you a purchase permit. You had to fill this out with all the personal details of the buyer and the gun, in quadruplicate. Then you went and bought the gun. Then you took the gun and the completed purchase permit to the police station to have the gun registered, and they gave you your green card. (We called them green cards, I think the official title was "Safety Inspection Certificate") After all that, you were good to go.

Rifles and shotguns were not subject to the Safety Inspection and Registration.

If you had a CPL you got to skip going to the police station to get the pistol purchase permit, but you still had to register a pistol after you bought it. Eventually they made it so you could mail in the paperwork instead of having to bring the gun to the police station.

I'm glad I don't have to deal with that anymore.

 

[jim243]

Jim, one can legally own and operate a motor vehicle without a license.

One can legally own and operate a personal aircraft without a license.

Can not operate either with out a license for the car or the plane on public roads or above 1,000 feet. Even need a lic for your boat, unless using a row boat or canoe . As to the plane, yes you can fly it but only under 1,000 feet otherwise you need a pilot's lic.

Jim

I'm glad I don't have to deal with that anymore.

I totally do not agree with the way MI handles (handled past tense) handgun sales.

Jim

 

[gym]

This topic is one which you can take either side of an make great points for both, But what it comes down to would make it harder to exercise your rights under the constitution.
There is nothing in there about a background check . If you give them an arm, they will take everything away. unfortunatelly there is never a piece of legislation passed that is just straight forward, it always has 20 different concesions made before it gets passed.
Today background checks, tomorrow, magazine limits, then no, auto pistols over 10 rounds, then no guns, they already are calling a rifle and 2 pistols, a weapons cache. The man had an arsonal, 2 pistols and a rifle.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Tell that to the multitude of farmers who learn how to drive an unlicensed, unregistered and uninsured cehicle at the age of 12. The only thig these licenses are required for is operating on a public road.

An ultralight aircraft is an aircraft, and while there are certain restrictions (weight and altitude) it is still an aircraft and it can still be operated without a license.

If you want to have a license to own, buy, sell, trade or carry a gun, there are states out there that are more than happy to abide.

The laws we have don't work, you said so yourself. Why pass more laws that won't work?

 

[Shadow 7D]

I'll be happy to do backgound checks
just as soon as the governments finds a way to keep ILLEGAL drivers OFF the road

when they can keep the guys with 12 DUI's, no licence no insurance people off the roads
and they do a good job of it, I'm open to discuss how to do a good job with guns

until then.....

 

[k_dawg]

The legal requirements to excercise your 2nd amendment rights should be absolutely identical to the legal requirements to excercise your 1st amendment rights.

Such as buying today's copy of your favorite newspaper.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

Can not operate either with out a license for the car or the plane on public roads or above 1,000 feet. Even need a lic for your boat, unless using a row boat or canoe .

As to the plane, yes you can fly it but only under 1,000 feet otherwise you need a pilot's lic.

I see you missed the point completely. You certainly can operate a car on a public road and a plane above 1,000 feet without a license - it's not a illegal until you get caught.

We have lots of people driving around New Mexico on suspended driver's licenses - usually from DWI. They still get picked up again, and again, etc. drunk and without a driver's license.

If you're intent on not following the law - then laws don't apply to you. In the case of killing someone with a gun - the first law you're broken is killing someone. In my mind - after that, "how" is a moot point.

 

[Onward Allusion]

I'm for transferring via a FFL on any of my gun sales. However, I am not for it as a mandatory requirement. I think it should strictly be up to the individual on how they sell their firearm. I do it 'cause I'm too lazy to box it up and pay triple in overnight shipping because I don't have a FFL.

 

[kingvillien]

I don't think this case will change anything, corrupt is corrupt. To modify a quote Hunter S. Thompson..."I feel the same way about background checks on private transfers as I do about Herpes." I think that they are a violation of my right to privacy to a certain extent. I DON'T think criminals should have guns, and the way to get around them procuring guns thru private transactions would be for the government to require excons to have a large stamp on their Drivers licenses or I.D.'s. Just My thoughts.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Making private sales require a background check = gun registration.

Also, the current system should be a background check to buy from an FFL but without the particular gun information attached, if they pass they pass.

Ummm, the only "gun information" attached to NICS check now is "HANDGUN LONGGUN OTHER"

 

[mgkdrgn]

If I want to drive a car, I have to get a drivers lic, if I want to fly a personal aircraft, I have to get a pilot's lic, if I want to run a business, I have to get a business lic, if I want to cut hair and charge for it, I have to get a beautician's Lic.

Where are any of those activities specifically mentioned in the US Constitution, the "Law of the Land", as rights?

Where has any of the existing gun laws, background checks, databases, shell casing databases, yadda yadda yadda done =anything= to reduce crime, while they punish law abiding citizens?

Laws do not PREVENT crimes! They DEFINE crimes.

 

[NoirFan]

I don't expect any support from this forum, but I am in favor of required background checks on private sales. If selling a gun to a stranger I would be content to pay a fee and meet at a licensed dealer's location to ensure that I am not selling to a prohibited person.

A gun is not a car, knife, screwdriver, wiffle bat, or other item that can be pressed into service as a weapon. A gun can be easily concealed, carried almost anywhere, and kill out to a distance beyond what most people can see. I would at least like to know the history of the buyer before selling him an item with these capabilities.

I've heard many private gun sellers say ridiculous things like, "well I'll just go by my gut" or "I'm a good judge of character". Guess what, NO ONE thinks that he, himself is a bad judge of character, but obviously many of us are. Can you pick out the repeat sex offender who is an expert at projecting a trustworthy image? How about the sociopath who has a lifetime of experience concealing his lack of empathy?

For these reasons I am in support of background checks IN PRINCIPLE.

IN PRACTICE, as seen on this very thread, there would be massive non-compliance so the measure would fail. But that's not the fault of the idea itself.

 

[NavyLCDR]

http://www.duifoundation.org/drunkdriving/accidents/vehicularhomocide/

The only difference between a vehicular homicide and other homicides is the use of a motor vehicle as the weapon, instead of a gun or a knife. While automobiles are not intended or designed to be used as murder weapons, when used improperly, automobiles can become deadly.

Statistics show that almost twice as many people die in vehicle crashes per year than by any other form of homicide. Also, more people are murdered in crashes where alcohol is involved per year than are killed by guns.

So, what have we done in America about vehicular homicide? Where is all the talk about background checks required to buy cars? Where is all the talk about only being able to buy a car from a same state resident? Where are the car free zones? Where is the Federal Automobile Dealer's License? Where are the medical records checks and having to have a number of references required to get a driver's license like some states have for a concealed weapons permit? WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT MORE REGULATIONS REGARDING THE SALE AND POSSESSION OF VEHICLES?!?

But what have we done? I remember 30 years ago drunk drivers weren't handled much differently than speeders. Now look at what drunk driving will cost you. How about if we punish criminal BEHAVIOR instead of trying to regulate the tool? Would anybody vote for the same regulations regarding the possession and sales of vehicles that we are talking about and already have for guns? And yet more people die every year from CRIMINAL ACTS committed with vehicles than criminal acts committed with guns....

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

My problem isn't in whether of not private parties can or should have to run checks - I'm not too concerned with them ever being required.

My problem would be in the manipulated bureaucracy and how they would -as they currently do - be able to slow, deny, record, tax and track sales beyond the soft sell issue of enabling a seller to feel confident that the entirety of the action is devoted to denying firearms to miscreants.

 

[alsaqr]

Have you ever tried to sell a house, now there is red tape by the truck load. (LOL)

Sold one last month. Took about 20 minutes of my time at the title closers.