Toledo police seize gun; Leave temporary CHL-holder defenseless

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Yet another reason to own more then one gun
The bastiches usually come and try to take them all, don't they? That might be one downside to keeping them all together in a safe. Maybe one or two here or there in undisclosed locations.

Man, that sounds OCD. :uhoh:
 
“We questioned both of the boys individually, and they both described the gun in their little unique ways,” Toledo Police Sergeant Joe Heffernan said. “It seems pretty evident to me that both those boys saw his gun. They both gave a pretty accurate description of it in their own words.”

I am a policedistruster to the max and greatly dislike the "police state" I live in, but.......darn it, it looks like the cop did what he had to do.

If he was brandishing, and Heffernan was obviously satisfied he was, and he also lied about brandishing, then the police could get called on the carpet for it later that they did not take his gun. What can you do? If he pulled the gun he should have called the police and told them the boys were threatening to or advancing to attack him. Big mistake. Big lesson: dont brandish.
 
“We questioned both of the boys individually, and they both described the gun in their little unique ways,” Toledo Police Sergeant Joe Heffernan said. “It seems pretty evident to me that both those boys saw his gun. They both gave a pretty accurate description of it in their own words.”
uhhhhh.....were they 'coached'? Since he had a CCW, the Toledo PD knew exactly what he carried..........

.....just wondering......
 
Another reason the CCW laws should not register the handgun. That is how it is in Arkansas. They have no idea what handgun you carry.
 
..

Other things aside, in OH, there's no requirement to tell the PD what you're carrying until you're asked to.

We are required to notify if we're carrying, but the Officer may not necessarily ask to see it, etc.

(He can, of course. Point being that if the kids were questioned first, the Officer probably would have no idea what the CHL holder was carrying.)

It still comes down to brandishing, but Toledo's on the list of places to expect this sort of thing to go wrong.

Regards,
 
In CA the gun has to be on an approved list, you have to go through a pretty extensive classroom and shooting course, then shoot again for the authority issuing the permit, and then requalify every two years. It is not an easy course; easier than the military standard practical pistol course but not by much. They have the serial number and if you get caught carrying something different, or technically, even using a different type of ammo than you qualified with, they can take your permit. You have to live in a county where, for whatever reason, they will even consider giving you a permit (not many will). You will usually be interviewed, psychologically evaluated, etc. And it all costs alot of money. The classroom portion teaches all about brandishing. Someone maybe should have told this guy it is illegal.
 
It seems pretty evident to me that both those boys saw his gun. They both gave a pretty accurate description of it in their own words.”

While Szych admits to having a gun with him, he denies ever leaving his front porch or taking the gun out of its holster attached to his belt under his shirt.
I yam just a dumba$$ed Ozarker and I know that Ohio is extreme anti CCW, but.......

The guy was on his front porch. Nobody said he brandished. I yam unfamiliar with Ohio Law, but if Open Carry on one's own property is a crime in Ohio, then I yam darned glad that I don't live there.

Open carry on one's own property is even legal in the LOO, which next to Illinois, which it is, is pretty extreme.

An injustice was done here.
 
Carry'in:

Damn - glad I don't live in CA....

OH has no requirements whatsoever about the actual firearm. Toledo and some other cities (Columbus' being the worst) have some local laws that probably aren't valid that prohibit some weapons by name or factoring criteria similar to the GCA '68 rules, but that's it.

We do have to qualify on the range. Two hours - 40 rounds, with a final 10 that'd better be in the circle or something to that effect. And another 8 or 10 hours of classroom time. (It's been 18 months - who remembers?)

I qualified for OPOTA back in the late 60's as a rent-a-cop. Other than spending some time with a shotgun, and being about 20 degrees inside the building that day, it wasn't much different. 'Bout the only difference was that I was trying to make it with a 2" Charter (all I could afford at the time). Nice warm April afternoon when I did it last, with a 4" S&W M10HB. I could have phoned it in by comparison to the 1968 round.

(Yeah - I did shoot after the OPOTA qualification.... That's OH's "Police Academy". At the time everybody took the same course. "Regular" LEO's now take a much longer course. Dunno what their range time looks like, though, but I think the range they're using is heated now....)

(In fairness to the folks in charge, way back when, the City PD provided the range, the heating system croaked, we had a sort of deadline, and were the second or third class after OH started to require any training. Shotgun range was outdoors anyway....)

OH will accept a bunch of different "courses" - OPOTA's current courses, Military qualification, and privately run affairs that use a slightly upgraded version of the NRA "Basic Pistol" course - updated to cover the peculiarities of OH law. To quote myself, I could have phoned it in. Expletives wouldn't take my 1968 OPOTA certification :eek: . Six years....

Not to sound arrogant, but the OH training requirements, other than the OH law material, almost boil down to "don't kill the guy beside you."

The rangemaster or lead instructor has to approve the weapon you bring to class, but it's more of a common sense thing than any sort of hard rule. I suppose it's written down somewhere, but the kid who ran my course is the careful type. I think my M10 is older than he is.... (Not a problem - his aunt is a good friend of mine, and just a little younger than I am. She's also a certified instructor. Good enough for me....)

We shot in two sets of 21 people each. I won't swear to the size of the second group - the range has seven positions, and three groups of shooters were present. One group on the line, one group coaching and handling ammunition, and one group just watching. I didn't see the second 21 at all.... This sounds a little silly, but if you've ever coached anybody you'll understand the value. The folks just watching learned a bit, too.

Cropcirclewalker:

OH is a little odd about this.... There are so many "don't shoot" and "don't show" rules that you're playing Russian Roulette whether you're on your own property or not. It's pretty much "don't ask, don't tell" as to whether or not you're carrying until you actually have to shoot.

Open carry is legal wherever firearms aren't banned entirely, but I'm not going to recommend it, and printing is OK too, if not necessarily a good idea either.

We had a case about a year ago where a woman was having problems with an ex-companion (I forget whether it was her husband or ....). Late night hang-up phone calls, doorbell rings with nobody there, etc. Dunno about a CHL at this point, but she kept a gun handy as this seemed to escalate.

The doorbell rang, she had her little one in hand, and picked up the gun to answer the door. Kid selling Girl Scout Cookies was not amused.

Local PD took her (child endangerment), and the kid went to Social Services. I'm not sure how this ended up.

(Short answer - open carry on your own property's probably not going to be a problem. Unholster and you're toast....)

Could be worse.

Regards,
 
Toledo police seize gun; Leave temporary CHL-holder defenseless

If losing the gun makes him defenseless, then chances are he was doomed anyway since he apparently hasn't bothered with learning other forms of self defense.

On top of that, the temp CHL is only valid for 90 days and will be issued no more than 1 time every four years. So the guy's CHL days were numbered anyway.
 
On top of that, the temp CHL is only valid for 90 days and will be issued no more than 1 time every four years. So the guy's CHL days were numbered anyway

The lame-brained thought behind the THL was that those who really needed a CHL could get one during the 90 days. The once every four years limit was to keep a friendly Sheriff from just giving you a new THL regularly.... That DV situations, for example, or nasty neighborhood problems, can last for years, so you pretty much must get a CHL, may not have been noticed.

Or, I guess, to give you time to hire professional security like those the lawmakers have....

Somebody didn't get the idea that it could take three or four days to get a THL, and while the THL was good for 90 days, it could take that long to get a CHL, if everything went right.... It took me about 41 days to get a CHL, starting about 30 days after completing the training course.

Wasn't the end of the world in my case, but would a THL holder want to be visibly involved in a CHL training program, or about anything else "out of the house" for a while? You kind of have to apply for the THL and then sign up for the CHL training at the same time....

OH counties are issuing CHL's rather more quickly now than they did when I got mine last year, but that doesn't change things too much.

I'm not complaining - I used to have to renew my City Commission every six months, in person, at the PD. NBD, and I could carry into the building, but parking was pretty bad. For years there was an incentive. June, the Crime Lab clerk.... But she ran off and got married. The next person I had to deal with was bigger than I am, and a guy.... (Those Commissions all went away in the mid-80's.) If they'd put June's picture on a recruiting poster, they'd never have had any manpower shortages. Wouldn't have had to pay 'em either....)
 
CarryIn
You'll need to provide a statute citation for you comment regarding ammunition and CCW cause to my knowledge what ammo you carry or qualify with is immaterial.

If I'm wrong I'll be happy to be educated.

Tom Laye
 
I clean my FAL out on the front porch because the smell bothers my family, theres a ohp down on the corner and a prison guard living 2 doors down, nobody says nothing...in toledo or some of the other cities, the antigunner idjits influence is evident.they do what they do because they have political backing to do it and until folks start changing their attitudes,its going to spread.

If the guy in question wasnt pointing it or being careless ON HIS OWN PROPERTY..there was no reason to do what was done. Its amazing how different each county and city acts towards gun ownership here in ohio. One city follows the law to a "T" and dont harass legal gun owners while other cities just make it up as they go along because they are all pc,over zealous and need to generate revenues.Toledo,Columbus and cleveland are just some that seem like the latter...bigtime.

kids have a colorful way of describing things, bet the kids folks are true blue soccer mom types.
 
We have a gated community as a contract, have had it for 4 years, last 6 months a motor patrol has been added, the resident owners of these very nice homes are not poor!
Teenagers is a boggy man word, sends everybody running to lock doors.
When we investigate a complaint on a "Gang" of teens, invariably it is two or three kids sat on the hood of a car daddy bought.
Cupping my hand to my ear gets the music turned down, a wee chat gets a solution, wave, have a nice night sir, from all these kids, and I now have 4 or so more buddies.
I can see why some one who is not acquainted with the violent side of the world, thinking a gun shown will fix the problem (like the movies) solution, know the law, engage mouth prior to holster snap might be good advice, that is if the police had the story straight, hey don’t laugh, it happens, kid to dispatch, dispatch to radio car, car to kids, kids to detective, Temp CCW chap to police! Hardly any room for mistakes there? Right?
 
CARRY'IN said;
It is not an easy course; easier than the military standard practical pistol course but not by much.

And where would one find reference to the military standard practical pistol course? All branches have their own courses, many of them are designed around range constraints.

Nothing in my copy of FM 23-35 about a standard practical pistol course. Never saw it mentioned in any training publication in almost 29 years in the Army.

Jeff
 
You'll need to provide a statute citation for you comment regarding ammunition and CCW cause to my knowledge what ammo you carry or qualify with is immaterial.

Dont need to provide you anything TR- I dont work for you. The sheriff I was shooting for told me that. I have been told alot of bum gouge by LEO's (if it is bum gouge- maybe you need to study up). I dont know where they get it from.

All branches have their own courses, many of them are designed around range constraints.

Okay Jeff, the service I was in had a practical pistol course- I assumed it was standard. Forgive me for not consulting MY copy of the FM 23-35. :rolleyes: Anymore questions? Or do I need to submit a resume with references to post on this thread?
 
CarryIn

Sounds like you'll go far on this site.

A little cooperation, communication wouldn't hurt.

I already know from reading two sentences of yours that I depise you and your type.

what service were you in?

Welcome to TheHighRoad.

Where's that IGNORE button.
 
If you despise me and "know" what type I am after reading two sentences then you dont get, or deserve, any cooperation or communication. If TR and Jeff want to call me on what I post without sending a private message first then they get what they get. And so do you.
 
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CARRY'IN,
Why are you so defensive? I only asked out of curiosity because I wasn't aware of any Army course of fire called the standard practical pistol course. How are we to judge how difficult it is if no one is familar with the COF?

I didn't think TRLaye's question was out of line either. Someone simply asked to see a cite for the statute because what you posted didn't fit into his experience. I didn't see it as a flame. Anyone can get on the internet and make any claim they want. There is nothing wrong with another member asking for some verification.

Jeff
 
Sorry. I am very defensive, its true. I get slammed pretty hard for my opinions on this forum and have a tendency to massively retaliate for any supposed slight. I support RKBA but lean a little left, and I am a police distruster- a bad combination for most of the people here; they cant seem to deal with that. I will attempt to curb my tendency for pre-emptive strikes.
 
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