Tom Plate's "Let's lay down our right to bear arms"

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Interesting to me was an April 2007 article by Tom Plate, a journalist, published by CNN as "Let's lay down our right to bear arms."

The thrust of Mr. Plate's argument is in its title. It's not a new or even interesting argument in itself, although it's likely to convert some people and affirm the beliefs of many others.

What's interesting, though, is Plate's selective insights into the Bill of Rights: "The right to free speech, press, religion and assembly and so on seem to be working well, but the gun part, not so much."

Plate probably is correct about the "right to free speech" and "press" from the viewpoint of a journalist. Those rights as exercised by journalists and others in the media are well protected. Even when anyone outside those professions is shocked by the irresponsibility or downright falsehoods and fabrications published by the media, their right to do so is protected.

For example their professions' response to faked stories that are published from time to time is that such incidents are atypical and, anyway, must be tolerated because the rights to free speech and a free press are too important to be restricted because of individual abuses.

I don't agree. My disagreement is reluctant because I know that we will be destroyed if we selectively parse the Constitution with the goal of casting out those parts that don't "seem to be working well."

Those are the very parts of the Constitution--parts that don't "seem to be working well"--that must be preserved and defended. The others don't need it.

The Constitution is most needed to protect the unpopular rights of Americans (those that inevitably would be denied after outrageous incidents) and the rights of unpopular Americans (those who are despised, either rightly or wrongly).

A constitution isn't needed to protect what and whom everyone likes at the same time. When a people are in general agreement there is no disagreement, no conflict. Constitutions are made to guide people when they disagree and are in conflict. Not lightly made, they must not be lightly altered, most especially not when the change involves a fundamental right of the people.

Part of the trouble with Mr. Plate's way of thinking is that it's based on the assumption that the Constitution will be parsed selectively, and only to remove those parts that he thinks don't "seem to be working well."

Mr. Plate doesn't understand that his thinking is fatal to the Constitution. When he and others who think that way open the door to amend the Constitution to remove what they want, that door is open and it's only a matter of time--probably not too long--before others will move to make the Constitution read the way they like. There are no parts of the Constitution that could survive determined assault by true believers with an argument.
Take, for example, those First Amendment protections of the press and speech. They don't work, at least not as well as Mr. Plate the journalist believes, and he himself points at a big crack in them:


Quote:
Foreigners sometimes believe that celebrities in America are more often the targets of gun violence than the rest of us. Not true. Celebrity shootings just make better news stories, so perhaps they seem common.

Mr. Plate seems not to realize that he has just indicted the media for slanting the news. It is a most serious indictment because it raises the vital issue of whether a press that puts its own interest in making "better news stories" above the public's interest in having balanced, accurate, trustworthy "news stories" deserves any special protection or treatment. It can be argued--and I do argue--that a press concerned primarily with its own interests should be cast loose entirely. Let the press--which has been expanded for no good reason to include every medium--fend for itself, just as other businesses must. The press, and indeed all the media, is no more nor less than an industry. It is not a sacred cow that should be encouraged to roam at will and trample with impunity all who get in its way.

There is another most serious problem revealed in Mr. Plate's comment that "Celebrity shootings just make better news stories, so perhaps they seem common." Shootings of every kind that result in harm to good people "just make better news stories" than shootings in which good people defend themselves. We know that the media in general ignore the latter: stories about the Pearl, Mississippi, high school incident in which the principal got his .45 ACP pistol to stop a rampage omit the principal's use of his gun to save children's lives. There are similar stories and the media treats them similarly. The gun is demonized and, as Jim McCloskey showed in his recent Staunton News Leader cartoon attacking gun owners, gun owners are denigrated and made to seem Bubbas.

The issue is more than simple fairness and decency. It goes to the heart of the matter. What is happening is that the media feeds itself the distortions it creates. The media circularity has gained such momentum and force that by now the media itself has poisoned the feast. It sees what it has taught itself to see, and the public suffers mightily because the information it gets from the media is tainted beyond all hope of rescue.

Mr. Plate himself demonstrates the problem created by the protected media: an obviously intelligent man, he looked at the effect of the media's distortion of firearms in its focus on those that "just make better news stories" and does not see that it's time to "lay down the right" to a press that has Constitutional protection to abuse the public interest.
 
For example their professions' response to faked stories that are published from time to time is that such incidents are atypical and, anyway, must be tolerated because the rights to free speech and a free press are too important to be restricted because of individual abuses.
Well stated.
 
Today's mass media is mostly left wing, and reminds me of a 16 year-old teen. They want all of the "rights" accorded to adults, but none of the responsibilities.

The Founding Fathers believed that a free and unfettered press was a bulwark against a corrupt or tyrannical government. Today the media is principally concerned with advancing its agenda toward creating a more Socialist/big government America while improving their own bottom line. Also news is no longer news, but sensationally enhanced entertainment. More then one helpless victim of a mass shooting have lost their lives because the shooter was “playing to the press,” seeking their few minutes of glory before going down in flames. They carefully overlook the fact that the Virginia Tech killer literally stopped in the middle of his attack to mail a bundle of background information to a television network in New York City – and of course they obliged him by using it in their forthcoming reports.

Given these facts, are we so sure that the First Amendment is working like it should??
 
"The right to free speech, press, religion and assembly and so on seem to be working well, but the gun part, not so much."

Oh, let's NOT lay down our right to arms, because this whole free people thing is actually working out fine for us.

Sorry, Plate. An armed citizenry is an irreducable precondition of freedom.

An unarmed citizenry lives and dies on the suffrage of someone else, and whatever liberty they have is subject to instant cancellation at gunpoint.
 
This, from today's Denver Post, is an example of how the media might influence a potential mass shooter. The article manages to touch on a lot that really doesn't have much to do with the incident, and quickly pass over what might influence the media might have had through their sensational coverage of the previous Columbine incident.

Colo. Gunman May Have Warned of Attacks
December 11, 2007 7:25 AM EST

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - Authorities believe the man who killed four people at a church and missionary training center posted an anti-Christian diatribe online that closely repeated a rant by one of the Columbine killers, a newspaper reported Tuesday.

Matthew Murray, who was kicked out of a missionary training center where the first shooting occurred, is believed to have posted the message on a Web site for people who have left evangelical religious groups. His most recent post was Sunday morning in the hours between his attacks in Arvada and Colorado Springs, according to KUSA-TV in Denver, which first reported on the writings.

"You Christians brought this on yourselves," Murray wrote, according to the station, which did not identify the site. "All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you ... as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world."

The language in the post is almost identical to the text of a manifesto written by Eric Harris, one of the teens who carried out the 1999 massacre at Columbine High School, The Denver Post reported.

The online posts spanned several weeks, the station said, and in an earlier one, Murray appeared to reject offers of psychological help.

"I've already been working with counselors. I have a point to make with all this talk about psychologists and counselors `helping people with their pain,'" he wrote, according to KUSA.

The station said Murray's posts were removed from the site after Sunday's killings, and that authorities were aware of them and investigating. Police in Colorado Springs and Arvada would not comment on the writings.

On Monday, officials said revenge was one apparent motive for the attacks. Police said Murray had sent hate mail to the Youth With a Mission center in Arvada in the last few weeks after being removed from the program years ago.

In a statement, the training center said health problems kept Murray from finishing the program, but elaborated little. Murray did not complete the lecture phase or a field assignment as part of a 12-week program, Youth With a Mission said.

"The program directors felt that issues with his health made it inappropriate for him to" finish, it said.

The program had an office at the site of the second shooting, the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, where Murray was shot by volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam. Investigators said Murray may have died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, though police and church leaders credited Assam's bravery with averting a greater tragedy.

Assam, 42, said her faith allowed her to remain steady under pressure.
"It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God," she said, her hands trembling as she recounted the shooting during a news conference.

Assam is a former police officer who worked in Minneapolis during the 1990s, Minneapolis police Sgt. Jesse Garcia said. Garcia said Monday night that he didn't know the exact dates of her employment with the force and couldn't comment on why she left.

Also Monday, officials finished searching the home where Murray lived along with a brother, Christopher, 21. Murray's father, Ronald S. Murray, is chief executive of the Rocky Mountain Multiple Sclerosis Center in Englewood.
In a search warrant affidavit, investigators said Matthew Murray attended a home-based computer school and worked at his computer for three to five hours a day for the past two years.

A neighbor, Cody Askeland, 19, said the brothers were home-schooled, describing the whole family as "very, very religious."

Christopher Murray studied for a semester at Colorado Christian University before transferring to Oral Roberts, said Ronald Rex, dean of admissions and marketing at Colorado Christian. He said Matthew Murray had been in contact with school officials this summer about attending the school but decided he wasn't interested because he thought the school was too expensive.
Police said Murray's only previous brush with the law was a traffic ticket earlier this year.

His relatives said they were grief-stricken and baffled.
"We cannot understand why this has happened. We ask for prayer for the victims and their families during this time of grief," said Phil Abeyta, Murray's uncle, who read a statement from the family.
---
AP Religion Writer Eric Gorski and Associated Press writers Colleen Slevin and Jacques Billeaud in Denver, George Merritt in Arvada and Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington contributed to this report.

http://enews.earthlink.net/channel/news/print?guid=20071211/475e1950_3ca6_1552620071211-2038226803
 
As I noted in April this has long been the position of the left and the ACLU. The problem is the neo-con right isn't any better. They have no use for the fourth or tenth ammendments.

Truly the left isn't any better about the first ammendment. With Tipper Gore burn CDs and the banning of words, books, pictures and ideas in schools they really are not any better at all.
 
The tenth amendment?

Blaming that on the "neo-cons" is pretty rich, Titan6. Even if anyone could tell exactly who the "neo-cons" are...

Now as far as the article, nothing is forcing Tom Plate to be armed. He has every right not to be armed.

That's the problem I have with any authoritarians. They talk about not wanting to exercise a right, but what they really want is to take away MY rights. That's true left, right and center. Sometimes ESPECIALLY the "center."
 
Has it occurred to anyone else that there's almost a predictable similarity to discussion threads in gun forums including The High Road?

No matter how they begin they are quickly turned into the same old directions as people join in to ride their own favorite hobby horses that have little to do with the original post.

In this one I think I've made some original points about the First Amendment sheltering the media while it covers issues in ways that distort them to the public's detriment and, also, the dangers in its drive to alter the Constitution so it reflects the results of those distortions.

Tom Plate's unusually clear expression of the way he thinks seemed to me a relatively rare example of how that thinking works and a good occasion to test my own insights here. I hope we can stick more or less to roughly that direction and avoid making this thread yet another opportunity for wrangling about our usual favorite subjects.

It's not that I think I'm anyone special but I do think that there are unique opportunities in this particular example because of the way Tom Plate laid out his points without seeing their implications and consequences. I'm certainly not trying to stifle discussion. I am very much interested in other points of view on the subject. And I'm not picking on you Titan6 or anyone else. It's a temptation that I've also found hard to resist. But maybe we can try to stick to the point?
 
"We recognize that the Constitution recognizes you have the right to protect yourself...however, because that right scares me, I suggest you give it up."

Geeze. That's like a nutty prosecutor saying he'd get more convictions if the defendants didn't keep citing the Fifth.
 
It's interesting that Tom Plate's argument made you think of the Fifth Amendment, AC.

I thought of it too when I read Plate's thinking. It immediately recalled the 1950s when many unpopular people invoked the Fifth Amendment to protect themselves against attack for having done unpopular things. Then as now there were politicians who equated the use of the Fifth Amendment with an admission of guilt, and then as now the media supported their thinking in the ways it slanted the news.

Connections between that day's drive to repeal the Fifth Amendment and today's drive to repeal the Second Amendment leap out when we think about the implications of the thinking represented by Tom Plate and others in the media.

Gun control is the media's child. I doubt that Carolyn McCarthy would have a political career if it were not for prejudices created and fed by the media's drive for "better news stories," and Sarah Brady might be just another unhappy wife if the media had not given her a platform. For the media and for them too the demon is the gun, not those with murderous mental illness that can't be controlled.

In each of those incidents their families were hurt by madmen: one who heard voices telling him to murder white people and another who wanted to impress a child actress by making headlines for killing the President. But the media distorts the news, believes its own distortions, and uses its distortions as justification for distorting with greater energy.

This is not the free press contemplated in the First Amendment's protection. A free people has nothing to gain from this kind of press and has every reason to mistrust it. Although I probably make the argument more directly than others, I think that a great many others perceive the problem and its fatal consequences. Newspapers and television are suffering from diminished audiences as people flock to the Internet in search of information and insights. The Internet's technology isn't what is destroying the traditional media. The traditional media has been committing suicide all on its own. An unbiassed media with competent journalists could thrive. We don't have that kind of media. The kind we do have isn't capable of surviving even with special protection and privileges denied to other businesses. It continues to decline even when the deck is stacked in its favor.
 
If Tom Plate wants to lay down his arms, assuming he has any, he's perfectly welcome to do so; he does not, however, speak for me.
 
Robert Hairless wrote:

This is not the free press contemplated in the First Amendment's protection. A free people has nothing to gain from this kind of press and has every reason to mistrust it. Although I probably make the argument more directly than others, I think that a great many others perceive the problem and its fatal consequences. Newspapers and television are suffering from diminished audiences as people flock to the Internet in search of information and insights. The Internet's technology isn't what is destroying the traditional media. The traditional media has been committing suicide all on its own. An unbiassed media with competent journalists could thrive. We don't have that kind of media. The kind we do have isn't capable of surviving even with special protection and privileges denied to other businesses. It continues to decline even when the deck is stacked in its favor.

Good and decent people, as long as they remain free, will TEND to seek out the truth, where ever they can find it. Most of the citizens in the US are good and decent people. Thus, they will look for sources of information which provide the MOST truthful information. As Robert has stated, the mainstream media has gained quite a bit of mistrust from a significant segment of society. When they no longer hide their agenda, many people become suspicious of the old media and begin to tune out. Certainly, there are people on the two far ends of the political spectrum who are not necessarily objective and will seek out sources of information which tell them what they want to hear. But the folks in the middle of the bell curve, I believe, want to hear the truth, for the most part. That truth should not be spun to promote any certain agenda. That would be a truely free press, and that is exactly what the founders were hoping for. Our press has drifted far away from a truely free press, as it was intended to be. Other news and information sources are beginning to replace the "press" as we have known it in the past. This is the way it should be in a free society.
 
We need to get rid of our guns.

They're not "our" guns. You have no right to get rid of MY firearms unless you convict me of a felony with full due process and a jury. The editorial is just more of the same BS. They're afraid of firearms, so they want to remove the right to keep and bear them.
 
Has it occurred to anyone else that there's almost a predictable similarity to discussion threads in gun forums including The High Road?

No matter how they begin they are quickly turned into the same old directions as people join in to ride their own favorite hobby horses that have little to do with the original post.
This is an internet forum. The general public does not come here to find out what's going on in the world.
 
They want all of the "rights" accorded to adults, but none of the responsibilities.
And that is why they are mostly anti-gun. They want to be able to run their mouth. They can do that irresponsibly without directly causing harm to anyone. With guns? You abusive your right to have a gun and someone gets killed. You forget any of the four rules to too much of a degree and someone's life is on your head. That's responsibility. They want none of it.
 
This is an internet forum. The general public does not come here to find out what's going on in the world.
Correct. The general public only cares about what Britney Spears and Paris Hilton are doing today.
:confused:
 
Excellent post Mr. Hairless. I too have noticed the press, and lots of people in general, seem to have forgotten that the point of the Bill of Rights was to protect the minority from the will of the majority. This line of thought has become so pervasive that I cringe whenever I hear pundits on TV shrieking about democracy.

But, on the other hand, I'm not sure the media at large really cares about the First Amendment either. Maybe Mr. Plate really does, and, yes, most journalists will play the free speech card if anyone dare question them, but does this mean they actually believe it? Not to derail the topic with another hobby horse, but just the other day, Tom Brokaw referred to blogs as "cancerous" in an interview about media coverage of mass shootings. The thing I took from the exchange was that he feels it's perfectly okay for NBC to make lunatics famous, but anybody else shouldn't be allowed to outside of the traditional media's "context."

So, in much the same way as the media at large thinks the Second Amendment applies to some government militia, it's almost as some of them think freedom of speech only applies to 'authorized journalists' with a press pass. One might also look at at it as if their sense of self-importance makes them think they're above the law, so to speak. And as such, they might not care about any part of the Bill of Rights if they feel they can manipulate the government and the people to get their way regardless.

After all, nearly ever anti-gun celebrity walks around with armed guards, even in places where the normal people are disarmed. So why wouldn't the media elite assume they would be immune from censorship as well?
 
Why do people like Plate seem to believe that everyone in our country should believe the same way he does? He is a free man and can speak and do as he wishes. But he has no leave to dictate to me what my beliefs and actions should be. It's a large country, Plate. Go find a spot where everyone wants to be like you and leave the rest of us alone. No one is stopping you. You won't have to worry about me...I won't be there. (Except you'll probably have to hire me to protect you from the predators that see a sheep ranch.)

People like Plate are always resisting others who would build certain parameters by railing against having to conform to those parameters. "Who's morality dictates that rule," they say. Yet their actions mirror those that they rail against by making me conform to their notion of the way things should be. You don't like guns? Fine. Find a place that doesn't have them and go there. Don't try and take mine away and make me conform to your notions.

Guys like him give education and journalism a bad name.
 
...the media distorts the news, believes its own distortions, and uses its distortions as justification for distorting with greater energy.

This is not the free press contemplated in the First Amendment's protection. A free people has nothing to gain from this kind of press and has every reason to mistrust it.
That's quite the insight you have there, Robert Hairless, and spot-on, too. It's interesting to watch those in the media spout off about how the RKBA more or less endangers the the security of the free state, as one could more effectively argue the press endangers that security by using its constitutionally protected First Amendment right to push all kinds of anti-freedom agendas. Or, said another way, it seems they use their constitutionally protected right to free speech to undermine all the rest of the rights protected by that same document. Rather ironic if you think about it.
 
If we start laying down rights, they should be in order, starting with the first amendment. Let Tom Plate lay down his First Amendment right first, and I'll lay down my Second Amendment right second, and so on...

I bet he won't go for it...
 
Robert sometimes I have to read your posts a couple of times to get full jest of what you are saying, but I have to say that I agree with most of what you do say.

As for the media/press, they have totally lost their objectivity. Instead of reporting the news they think that it is their right to report what bring them the most attention! They aren't interested in the truth, they are interested in ratings!:cuss:

And Tom Plate is a complete horse's behind!:fire:
 
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