Trail Boss 357 Mag & 148 Gr LHBWC

[oujeffscar]

Ok, first ever post.

I am new to the HighRoad and to reloading. Just finished up my first 100 target loads last weekend. The recipe I used was

357 Magnum cases
Hornady LHBWC
3.0 Gr Titegroup

I went out and shot them and was happy with results. But all during the reloading I was nervous about getting a double powder load. I know if you use a constant system and double check your cases after filling this shouldn't be a problem, but I would feel better with more case filling.

After reading all I could this past week and searching specifically on the highroad, I decided I would like to try Trail Boss. I found some cases where people quoted anywhere from 2.3 to 3.0 gr for the 357 cases and the 148 gr LHBWC. I also read where some people do not think Trail Boss is best for WCs, because you don't want to compress the powder. My questions is since Hodgdon lists load data (2.0 to 2.3 gr) for 38 spl and 357 Mag cases are longer than 38 spl then why wouldn't Trail Boss be good for 357 Mag?

I know this same type question was asked on this same forum last year, but I thought maybe someone might have some new input.

 

[Hammerdown77]

To find max load for TB in any cartridge, determine where the base of the bullet will be in the case and fill the case with TB up to that point. Weigh it. That's max, and you can start 15% below that if you'd like.

TB is very forgiving. You don't want to compress it 1/8" like black powder or anything, but a little compression ain't gonna hurt you. Just do some experimenting to see what max fill to the base of the bullet you want to use is, and go from there.

 

[wdyasq]

TrailBoss is about the 'fluffiest' powder I have ever seen. I a double load would surely be seen. AND, even if it were missed , I doubt it would over-pressure.

I just filled a .357 case FULL of TrailBoss and it was 7.5 gn. Their load data claims one can load to 100% as Hammerdown stated and still be fine in a modern gun.

Be good for plinking and target killing but I would not use it for serious hunting.

Ron

 

[oujeffscar]

100%

So is it 100% of the case volume or 100% of the case volume up to the bottom of the bullet?

 

[Eb1]

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

 

[joneb]

I have tried various powders including Trail Boss with 148gr WC for 38spl and 357 mag Bullseye gives the best accuracy.

 

[Eb1]

I use Trail Boss in .44 Magnum for fun loads and for people who want to say that they have shot a .44 Magnum.
It doesn't provide the best accuracy, but it sure is fun to shoot nevertheless.

 

[wdyasq]

EB1 - thanks for posting the PDF on 'how'.

I load TrailBoss for my brother's .308 Winchester with an integral suppressor. I've found little use for it other that really reduced loading.

Ron

 

[oujeffscar]

trail boss pdf

EB1 - for some reason my computer is not allowing me to load pdf files, something that just started over the past few weeks.

Any chance of a summary on the pdf.

 

[CGT80]

Mark your case where the bottom of the bullet would be seated. Fill to that mark with trail boss. That will be a 100% load-empty space in casing filled with powder, but not compressed. You can start as low as 70% of that amount according to the pdf that I read.

I have not tried TB in such a small case yet. It works ok in 45lc, but I prefer win 231. 231 doesn't fill the case much, so I have to watch carefully as you have found. TB is great for light loads in my 460. Trail boss loads are quite slow and sometimes anemic. You can stick a bullet in the bore of your gun if you go too low. Also, some people have found data that shows the pressures generated with trail boss can be near full power loads, even though the velocities will be low. Trail boss can be dirty and 100% loads aren't always the most accurate.

I would recommend trying a pound of trail boss. It can be used in any cartridge and has some good uses. 231 is my favorite powder and I use it in 9mm, 40,45, 38 spl, 44spl, 44mag, and 45lc. I tried red dot and herco in 9mm and found that it seemed bulkier than 231. Maybe someone else can chime in on a nice bulky powder for you. I think trail boss would get your bullet to the target, but I don't know if you will end up wanting more power out of your 357 than what tb will give you.

 

[oujeffscar]

First Loads

Ok so this morning I calipered the length of the powder sections in my 357 Mag cases and the 148 Gr Hornady LHBWC. Then I determined the percent of the case that would be available once the bullets were seated, which was approximately 48%. Then I determined that an empty primed case would hold 8.0 gr of TB. Multiplying 48% times 8.0 Gr = 3.84 Gr. 70% of 3.84 is 2.69 Gr. Because I had read that someone had a load they liked that was 3.0 Gr of TB with 148 Gr LHBWC and because I didn't want to take any chance on too low a power load, I decided to load some rounds with 3.0 Gr. I also loaded up some Missouri Bullets 148 Gr DEWC over the 3.0 Gr of TB.

Then I went to the range. everything shot well. The loads were nice and light. However the Hornady loads did not group nearly as well as the Missouri Bullets. The DEWCs were a good amount shorter than the Hornadys, so you might be able to load a little more than 3.84 Gr. I am going to up the charge over the next few weeks a little at a time and see if I can find a sweet spot. Probably will not go over 3.6 Gr max.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

oujeffscar,
I'm guessing you want to load light target loads in .357 Magnum brass by the powders you are using. Is there a reason you are using magnum brass for light .38 Special loads?

As for double charges, it's highly unlikely you will double charge a case unless you're using a progressive press and that can be checked by using a a Powder-Cop die or a lock-out die. I think you're worrying just a little too much if you're letting that dictate which powder you use in your loads.

For Wadcutters I use almost nothing but W231/HP-38. That powder meters like water, is clean and produces very accurate ammo. Trail Boss was specifically developed for use in Cowboy Action ammo and produces extremely light shooting ammo.

Welcome to the forum and reloading. You will find reloading is more of an addiction than a hobby! LOL

 

[oujeffscar]

Light Loads and 357 brass

Yes I am trying to load light target loads. The reason I decided to go with 357 brass is that eventually I want to develop some fairly strong loads and since I was buying the brass I figured if I went with the longer brass I wouldn't have to worry about developing the rings in my cylinders.

 

[rcmodel]

eventually I want to develop some fairly strong loads

Then you might as well develop a fool-proof system right now while you are learning to prevent any possible chance of a double charge with any powder.

This has worked perfectly for me for 50+ years.

1. Always use 50-round loading blocks.
http://compare.ebay.com/like/251099200631?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

2. Set all primed cases in the loading block mouth down.

3. As you pick up a case and charge it, set it in another loading block mouth up.

4. When all 50 cases are charged, look inside all of them to check for uniform powder height in each case.

5. Start bullets in all the cases, and move to the reloading press & seat them.

If you do all this, a double charge or missing powder is impossible.

As for powder, I agree on Alliant Bullseye.
It has won enough NRA bullseye match trophy's over the last 100 years to sink the Titanic.

rc

 

[ljnowell]

OP, I used to load everything for my 357s in 357 brass. I shot thousands of the Missouri Bullet DEWCs that way. I wore out some pretty good quality starline brass (or at least used up a lot of its case life in most cases) doing it. It was because I didnt want the crud ring to deal with.

Within the last year I quit doing that. Starting loading all the DEWCs in 38 cases. When I started shooting in a Bullseye league I was loading to duplicate thier ammo required. I also have too many 38 cases to count. I found that after shooting 250 rounds I could still easily chamber 357s. I then shot 500 without any cleaning and could just feel a little resistance to loading. Stopped, did a basic cleaning, no hard scrubbing or anything, and checked, it was fine, no crud ring.

I came to the conclusion that this crud ring takes a while to develop. In 500 it was still easy to clean and could still load 357s. For it to be so hard to clean out, it would have be building up a long time.

 

[Hammerdown77]

You cannot double charge a case with Trail Boss. Max is at the base of the bullet. Unless your bullet takes up half of the case... But then you'd never be able to seat the bullet on a full case of powder.

TB is "almost" idiot proof. "Almost"...

 

[Lost Sheep]

So is it 100% of the case volume or 100% of the case volume up to the bottom of the bullet?

Think about it.

If you fill the case 100% (to the mouth of the case), where will the bullet fit?

Figure out how much of the bullet will be below the case mouth (in inches or millimeters) and make a mark inside the case (pencil or magic marker) that deep into the case mouth. Fill the case with TB to that mark. Dump the powder into your scale and weight it. Start your charge weight at 70% of that weight and work up towards 100% stopping where you are satisfied with the performance.

I have read that you DO NOT want to compress Trail Boss, not even a little. It is a fairly new powder (5 or 6 years since introduction) and some of the cautions are still being worked out.

Good luck. Be safe. Always, all ways. Thanks for asking our advice

Lost Sheep.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Yes I am trying to load light target loads. The reason I decided to go with 357 brass is that eventually I want to develop some fairly strong loads and since I was buying the brass I figured if I went with the longer brass I wouldn't have to worry about developing the rings in my cylinders.

That's what I do. In 37 years I have only ever owned 50 cartridges of 38 special.

Not only does it eliminate questions of the "crud ring", but it means I don't have the logistical complexity of two different cartridge lengths in the same caliber. Of course, it helps that I don't actually own a 38 special gun.

Lost Sheep

 

[rcmodel]

I'm still trying to figure out what 70% of the case volume to the base of the bullet figures out to be when using the Hollow-Base wadcutters the OP ask about??

Now thats a real puzzlement??

rc

 

[wdyasq]

You cannot double charge a case with Trail Boss. Max is at the base of the bullet. Unless your bullet takes up half of the case... But then you'd never be able to seat the bullet on a full case of powder.

TB is "almost" idiot proof. "Almost"...

Remember, the world is building more advanced idiots.

Ron

 

[Lost Sheep]

I'm still trying to figure out what 70% of the case volume to the base of the bullet figures out to be when using the Hollow-Base wadcutters the OP ask about??

Now thats a real puzzlement??

rc

I forgot that part about the hollow base bullets. It seems like it might be time to fill the case with water to where the bullet base stops, fill the hollow base bullet with water, combine the weights, subtract 30%. Lots of arithmetic.

Lost Sheep.

 

[rcmodel]

I guess you could fill the case to the base of the HBWC bullet with powder, then fill the hollow base bullet with powder.

Then dump the two in the scale pan and see what it says.

As for me, I can't think of any reason to use Trail Boss with HBWC's anyway.

rc

 

[Texan Scott]

The load data IMR posts for .357 Trail Boss is for 10" barrels... I would expect a .357 TB load to yield standard-pressure .38(ish) performance in a more reasonable length... target ammo, or small game, not much more.

also, WDYASQ, i beg to differ... the world does not 'build' better idiots. it progressively weeds out the worst idiots, and natural selction kicks in...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have read that you DO NOT want to compress Trail Boss, not even a little. It is a fairly new powder (5 or 6 years since introduction) and some of the cautions are still being worked out.

Good luck. Be safe. Always, all ways. Thanks for asking our advice

Lost Sheep.

From what I've read the powder burn rate is controlled by a coating and the amount of space provided for that coating. The powder itself looks like little donuts with a hole in the middle. That is done to provide more surface for the coating. If you break up the little donuts by compressing the powder the burn rate changes dramatically and usually causes pressure spikes.