I wish to sell a gun to a customer from out of state. He will travel to my FFL to examine the gun. If he buys the gun I would like my ffl to transfer the gun to my customer. My FFL says that he cannot legally do this. He must ship the gun to another FFL. This just does not sound right. Every gun dealer buys guns from non ffl's and sells them to other non ffl's. Why can't an ffl accept a gun from one person and transfer it to another? Does anyone know a specific reference where this subject is discussed?
Transfer gun to new owner
- Thread starter kkayser
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The FFL in the buyer's home state will have to do the transfer him. So, your local FFL can ship it to his local FFL. If the buyer is from out of state, then your local FFL can't transfer anything to him, same as any other out of state sale.
This link has an explanation: https://www.durysguns.com/news/gun-transfer-laws-buying-out-of-state
This link has an explanation: https://www.durysguns.com/news/gun-transfer-laws-buying-out-of-state
Hunter86004
Member
It depends on a couple of factors. 1) A dealer may not transfer a handgun to a nonresident of the state where the dealer does his business. 2) A dealer may not transfer a long gun to a resident of a state where that long gun is illegal.
You can find most of the answers in: 18 U.S.C. 922
Dealers have a lot of discretion, so even if it's legal, he does not have to do it.
Hunter86004
Member
That is not a face to face transfer.
How is it not face to face? The OP wants his FFL to transfer to a buyer coming in from out of state. Or at least that's how I'm reading it.
Hunter86004
Member
This is not face to face unless they are the OP's dealer. The OP's would be.
edwardware
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Easy peasy! Any FFL in the buyer's state can transfer the gun from you (to the FFL, then) to the buyer. You're just in the wrong state.
If you don't want to travel to the buyer's state, then you're going to have to ship it.
Hunter86004
Member
That depends on what it is and whether it's legal in the buyer's state. If it's legal in the buyer's state and not a handgun, the FFL can transfer it to the buyer.
Like I stated above, dealers have a lot of discretion as to refuse to do something even if it's legal.
Well here's the story on federal law on interstate transfers --
- Under federal law, any transfer of a gun (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. And a handgun must be transferred through an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.). There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.
- In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.
- In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence. In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.
- There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.
- The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).
- Here's what the statutes say:
- Violation of these federal laws is punishable by up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine. It also results in a lifetime loss of gun rights.
Elkins45
Member
I live in KY but relatively close to the Ohio border. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone from Cincinnati responded to my Armslist ad wanting to cross the river and do a private sale. Some of them have gotten more than a little testy when I have explained the above to them.
A couple of the really insistant ones have made me eventually reply with, “So how long have you worked for the ATF?” One of them replied with a
Hunter86004
Member
for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
Read (a) (3) Then go to (b) (3) of the same statute.
(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States),
(a) (3) does not apply to rifles or shotguns.
Read (a) (3) Then go to (b) (3) of the same statute.
(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States),
(a) (3) does not apply to rifles or shotguns.
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Hunter86004
Member
Living and doing transfers in Arizona, I get the same kind of folks from California who want to know if they can order an AK or AR and have it shipped to me. I've often wondered if it was BATFE doing a sting.
Not exactly. Read (b)(3) carefully -- every word. There are requirements which must be met for (a)(3) to not apply to long guns.
Do not try to paraphrase or truncate statutory language. And don't try to play lawyer unless you have the qualifications. I don't play a lawyer. I am one.
Hunter86004
Member
No kidding. They are the same requirements that a dealer has to comply with when transferring a firearm to a resident of the state in which his business is located and he must comply with the laws of the state in which the buyer resides.
It's the same thing you posted above.
So, what is it you think I'm missing?
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jrmiddleton425
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Let's begin at the beginning. Is the gun a long gun, or a handgun?
If it's a handgun, your FFL is correct. The transfer must take place at an FFL in the buyer's state of residence..
No it’s not. The exact words matter. All the words matter.
You keep trying to use different words, and you leave things out — especially my explanation.
I stated the law accurately, and explained it accurately, in the third bullet in post 9. One important fact is that depending on the laws of the buyer’s State of residence an FFL in another State might not be able to perform a transfer that complies. You keep forgetting about that.
So we’re not going to continue this. Post 9 pretty well covers everything, and I’ve got better things to do than keep correcting folks.
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