Troy, ARMS or YHM BUIS, which should I go?

[ShootAndHunt]

After doing some research and asking questions, I got some idea what kind of rear BUIS (backup iron sight) I should look at. Currently I am pretty undecided among the three flip-up: Troy, ARMS and YHM.

It seems to me that Troy is the best of these three, also the most expensive one, with a price ~$150. ARMS #40-L also seems very nice, and I got some good comments on YHM, which is nicely priced at $80.

My question is, is the Troy really that good and worth the money? What is its special features which makes it so attractive? I don't mind to pay for resonable price for some good stuff, but $150 seems really too high for a BUIS, almost half of the price of my EoTech, I cannot justify to spend that much on a BACK-UP sight. Is the Troy overpiced because of the market?

ARMS #40-L and YHM both seem to be reasonably priced, For a BUIS, I just want one which could lock solid into position when needed. I don't like the feel that it could still shake or rattle around and might lost or drift from its position. That is why I have some doubt on BUIS with springs, are they really rock solid in the filp-up position?

My local gun-store don't have any BUIS in stock, so I cannot try my hands on them and have to go online to order one. I really need you guys opinions before I get one satisfying my need. Thanks!

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I have the older ARMS #40 and it is a perfectly serviceable sight that I have used to make repeated, fast hits on 8" plates at 200yds. The bonus to the spring is that it allows you to deploy the sight very quickly. The downside is that barriers, mud or gunk can stop deployment of the sight by preventing the spring from pushing the sight to the fully deployed position.

The ARMS #40 series of sights will wobble a bit with recoil when you shoot; but it has no practical affect on their accuracy that I've noticed. The #40L is a nice low profile sight but deploys with the small aperture in position instead of the large aperture. That may or may not be an issue for you.

I never had any issue with the ARMS #40 shifting zero or the adjustment knobs being moved; but I did use blue loctite when installing the sight. if you are going to use the Improved Battle Zero, I recommend you get a same-plane aperture regardless of what sight you ultimately go with.

I also own the Troy and it is a better backup sight than the ARMS #40. I personally don't think it is $70 better in terms of practical use; but it is a better inherent design using better materials. I don't have any experience with the YHM sights, so I can't help you there.

 

[usp_fan]

I've got the YHM and have played with the #40 a bit. The prime difference that I saw was the #40 locks in the down position (to keep it from deploying accidently) and the YHM locks in the up position (to keep it from folding down accidently). The advocates of spring loaded in the up possition sight will tell you that this is an advantage if your BUIS is hit on a branch or something--it can spring down out of the way and pop back up for use. The other camp will tell you the locked up sights are the best because you are always sure they will be there.

I bought the YHM because it was a good deal (used) and it provided the utility I wanted-it's only there as a back up. The only thing I've noticed with it that is very slightly bothersome, is sometimes I will find it in a half up postion--usually after I've been working with the rifle for a while. I think that the inertia of some of the drills cause the sight to want to deploy up, but lack the force to get it all the way up. I've never noticed it getting in the way of the Aimpoint, so I don't see it as a real issue.

The #40 is a great and really neat sight as well. You wouldn't go wrong with it, and the resale value would be higher if you ever part out your rig.

I've never used the Troy--but here very good things about it.

--usp_fan

 

[ShootAndHunt]

Thanks a lot guys! I tried my hand on the ARMS BUIS today at the range, and it does use a spring to stay on the up position. It deploys very quickly, but I am kind of curious about the wobble motion. I think I prefer something without the springs but other kind of locking mechanism. Is there such a BUIS?

 

[demusn1979]

Did you check out the GG+G





Very nice!

 

[usp_fan]

The YHM locks in the up position using a spring loaded plunger and detent type lock. It is very positive and will not "wobble" or fold unless you disengage it.

--usp_fan

 

[matthewdanger]

I have been using the Midwest industries BUIS with great success. It is rugged and locks very solidly in the up position. You can see it here. It isn't any less expensive than the units you are looking at, but it is very simple and rugged.

I bought mine from Bravo Company. It is curently on sale there. I can't say enough about their customer service and speed of delivery.

 

[ShootAndHunt]

Does YHM rear BUIS have a dual flip aperture same as the standard A2 style or a single aperture?

Are these BUIS at the same height as a A2 sight? I heard that for a ARMS #40 you need a higher front sight since when deployed, the rear sight is on a higher position than a standard A2.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Are these BUIS at the same height as a A2 sight? I heard that for a ARMS #40 you need a higher front sight since when deployed, the rear sight is on a higher position than a standard A2.

They are the same height as a standard A2 sight; but the sight geometry is a little different. Colt uses a slightly different front sight base on the M4 carbine than they do on the M16A2 (The "F" marked sight base). Most folding rear sights are designed for use with the M4 on a 14.5" barrel. If you use the ARMS #40 with a standard front sight base, you may need a taller front sight post or need to adjust the front sight post to where it is almost at the end of its UP adjustment. On my ARMS #40, I did need to go to a taller front sight post with both the 16" carbine barrel and the 16" midlength barrel.

One nice thing about the Troy sight is it locks in both the down and up position, so it is always where you left it. No half deployed situations.

Any piece of equipment you add to an AR will have some limitations, even if it is only cost. The key is to decide what limitations you can work around and then go with the equipment that does that.

 

[444]

"I cannot justify to spend that much on a BACK-UP sight."

Some faulty logic there. Think about this: If your primary sight goes down, that BACK-UP sight now becomes your primary sight. It is sort of like a spare tire. It exists only in the dark recesses of your mind until you need it. I live in the desert southwest. We have a lot of wide open spaces. Most of the state is uninhabited. We have roads that might only have a car or two an hour go by during busy times. If you get a flat tire out there, your very life may depend on it. Prior to needing it, you might not even check the pressure in it. You probably didn't give any thought at all to whether it was a worthy tire, but when it is all you got and you have 100 miles or so to the nearest town it suddenly becomes real important.
By it's very nature, a BUIS is a SHTF item: the only time you need it, your life depends on it. As a civilian sport shooter, if your EOTECH goes down, you just quit shooting and go home. You replace the battery or get it fixed and next time out at the range, everything is fine. You don't need BUIS for civilian range shooting. When you NEED BUIS, you really need BUIS. And you won't be thinking to yourself: man I sure am smart, I saved $30 on this sight.
I own most of the sights mentioned here: ARMS #40, GG&G, and Troy.
I prefer the Troy.
One big reason is that both of the other sights have an easy to adjust windage knob on them. When you are talking about BUIS, you don't want or need an easy to adjust windage knob. You don't want to find out when the chips are down that your rifle is shooting two feet to the left because your easy to adjust knob got turned somewhere along the line.
My Troy sights (two of them) don't lock in the down position. They only lock in the up position.

I have found with my flat top rifles that the front sight is long enough to zero, however it is just barely high enough. It is ready to fall out. So, I replaced all mine with a taller front sight which is available from Bushmaster (among others).

The price of an EOTECH and a BUIS have nothing to do with each other.

 

[rbernie]

"I cannot justify to spend that much on a BACK-UP sight."

Some faulty logic there.

Agreed - let's restate it. "I cannot justify spending $140 on a backup rear sight if I can get something equally servicable for less than $100."

I'm currently building a flattop mit Aimpoint carbine, and as a result I've been following this thread with interest. I would be really interested in hearing from anyone that has seen/fondled/owned the YHM-9680 A1 (A1 style adjustment rather than A2) BUIS.

 

[444]

Just to muddy the water further, LaRue makes a BUIS that is supposed to be a good one. I am sure it is since LaRue makes good stuff. It doesn't fold down, it is up all the time. But, getting anything from LaRue right now is tough.
Pat Rogers wrote an article in SWAT magazine a few months ago about BUIS. It might be worth looking at: you can download SWAT magazine for the cost of the magazine.

 

[Samuel_Hoggson]

Many good choices, but far and away the most rugged and likely to always return to zero when raised is the Troy. I say this despite owning mostly ARMS.

Sam

 

[NMshooter]

You could always cut your detachable carry handle.

Chop off enough of the front that you can fit the rear portion on behind your EOTECH and you will always have your backup irons ready to go, with no additional expenditure.

Personally I have both the ARMS #40 and #40L, and they both work for what I need.

 

[modifiedbrowning]

I'm happy with my YHM.

 

[mmike87]

Get the YHM. The quality is real good, and the price is competitive. I have all sorts of YHM stuff on mu AR, BUIS included, and all of it is reasonably priced IMO. No problems with any of their stuff.

 

[ShootAndHunt]

Does YHM rear BUIS have standard A2 dual aperture or single aperture? Do I need to use a taller front sight post when using it, or just the standard one is enough?

If I am not mistaking, I need a taller front sight post if I go for a Troy, just like the ARMS?

 

[modifiedbrowning]

The YHM has the dual aperture.

 

[rbernie]

Does the YHM lock in the down position? If not, what keeps it from popping up?

 

[usp_fan]

Gravity and Friction. It is not spring loaded. To raise the sight, you grab it and lift. It locks. To drop it, you push the plunger and depress the sight.

Every now and then, something will move the sight slightly up (almost deployed). I never even notice unless I reach down to pop it up and find it nearly up.

--usp_fan

 

[rbernie]

No GG&G MAD fans? It doesn't look as potentially robust as some other options, but it does have same-plane apertures and a detent for both up and down positions....

 

[ShootAndHunt]

Thanks for all the replies!

Could anyone tell me the following: Does the aperature height of these BUIS the same as on the A3 handle when installed on a flat top? I heard that some will need a taller front sight blade (post) since it is higher, which I don't like very much since I plan to switch between EoTech and A3 handle sometimes. it means have to change back the front sight post too.

444, I agree that your opinion is right, but I mostly shoot at the range, so the BUIS is a good addition but not so necessary for me in this case, for homedefense I prefer a fixed iron sight type I just think that based on the common sense, the BUIS seems a little overpriced if judging only from the cost of manufacturing it.

 

[browningguy]

For $80-150 just buy a bunch of ammo and practice, much more useful than a BUIS.

 

[444]

"I plan to switch between EoTech and A3 handle sometimes. it means have to change back the front sight post too"

As I said in my previous post, the standard front sight is just barely tall enough. Replacing that front sight with a taller sight doesn't mean that the new one won't work, it just gives you more range of adjustment than the factory front sight. There is no reason to be switching back and forth.

 

[Correia]

To further muddy the waters, I like the Matech. Locks up pretty solid. Single small aperature.