Tuner?? A Question.

[P95Carry]

I have read thru your take down info again but when it comes to thumb safety .. it is down as just ''remove''.

I am wanting to check with you if I may .. re the thumb safety on my Sistema 1927 ... with safety up and hammer cocked .. should this not just withdraw? I want to check and not force anything.

I want to continue from there and install a Chip McCormick trigger. Any other pitfalls to look out for on this piece?

TIA

 

[P95Carry]

Initial panic over! Just turned out this one was very sensitive to position and I had to ''wiggle'' a bit delicately to find the point where it would come out .... as yet tho to go far enough for getting at trigger.

We'll see how that goes!

 

[P95Carry]

Going OK until trying to remove mag release catch ... despite fully depressing from left .... it'll only go an 1/8 turn and does not seem to want to go a full 1/4 turn! I obviously do not want to apply excessive torque on the right .. even with a well fitting Brownells screwdriver.

It has me stimied for the moment ... ideas? Get that puppy out and I can deal with trigger.

 

[1911Tuner]

Mag Catch

Howdy P95,

It oughta turn through. Maybe a burr on the catch lock? If you release
the tension on the button a little, the spring will fight you. Keep tryin',
and apply a little back and forth "wiggle" on the screwdriver as you
keep pressure on the button. The best way is to push the button all the way in, and slowly release it as you keep tension on the screwdriver.
Might take 2 or 3 tries before you hit the spot.

The Norinco that I picked up recently is a little stubborn on the mag catch.
Gotta get that puppy in juuust the right position. When you get it there, the mag catch will probably push right through and out of the frame.

The thumb safety usually pushes out when it's about halfway between on and off. Sometimes they also take a bit of wigglin'...

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Jim Watson]

The magazine catch lock is NOT a screw.
Depress the magazine catch as though to remove a mag. Turn the lock 1/4 turn counterclockwise - LEFT. You may have to vary pressure on the button and "feel" for the lock to turn into its takedown notch. When you do, the spring will be captured and the catch assembly will drop out to the right side of the gun.

 

[P95Carry]

Kudos once again Tuner! Yep . indeed another case of ''find the sweet spot'' .... I usually do look for that .... it's a sorta ''engineer's trade mark'' ..... but my experience with 1911's is limited and so .... always that feeling of not quite knowing what to expect!

Great ..... now to get the whole deal back together.! Looks like new trigger is gonna need a tad of easement ... very tight initially, so .... on to next stage. Watch this space!

Thx.

 

[P95Carry]

Thx Jim for your input also.

OK - job's done! Success. The trigger was indeed a hair tight top and bottom .... had to apply marker pen, try for fit and see where high spots were ....... judicious use of finest needle file on the aluminum and try again .. about 6 times. Finally after it fitted smoothly ... polish filed areas with 600 grit. Probably only a thou each end had to come off.

Reassembly was OK except for usual fiddle with sear and disconnect .. one always wants to obey gravity!! Rest was pretty OK.

Whilst the trigger unit itself is riding smooth I detect a smidgeon of creep ... annoying but .. maybe I must go shoot it some more! As Tuner says ... ''This ain't a Swiss watch''

Gotta say .. have one of these apart or even a BHP ....... and once again you can enjoy the elegance of JMB's simplicity - takes some beating eh!

Thx again for input - I daresay I'd have managed but .... it's nice to hear what the experts have to say.

 

[sm]

Good thread.

Which reminds me, I have those "majic cigar boxes" that re - assemble small firearms.[ gun and parts go into box, shake like hell, ta da "stuff is together"] Been meaning to send these to Tuner. I still think the Roi-Tan worked better ...Tuner...I bet these Swisher Sweets will work...especially once we get that carbon fiber gift wrapping paper and re-cover...heck might get to charge more for these.

Chris glad it worked out. These Magic boxes double for transport to local gunsmith, and stack well in a safe to store multiple guns...you want one? I'll treat ya right old buddy...

 

[1911Tuner]

Done!

Excellent! Well done, lad. Well done!

The creep is probably due to both hammer hooks not hittin' the sear evenly,
or a burr somewhere in the works. Cock the hammer and dribble a little
oil between the front of it and the frame to get it on the sear/hook area.
Boost the hammer 4 or 5 times and see if it gets better.

Hammer Boost: Cock the hammer. Push forward on the hammer firmly with your thumb while pulling the trigger until the hammer falls. If you have
to use more than about twice the normal pressure on the trigger to drop
the hammer, you're pushing too hard...Back off gradually until the sear breaks and drops the hammer. It should improve a little. If not, let me know.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[P95Carry]

Steve ... hi buddy! Haha ... I like the sound of your ''magic boxes''.! Maybe put one aside for me!

Tuner ... update ....... yeah, I have the impession of a burr. The trigger itself .. and I'm sure you know these Chip ones ... lightweigh Aluminum and the side rails are reduced height .... anyways ... all that is well free and smooth so we must have a sear issue.

I carried out several ''boosts'' .... and it seems to have had little effect. It's interesting that what feels like a soft ''snicky'' creep under normal release becomes under ''boost'' a very subtle but definite ''snick'' ... and it occurs just the merest fraction (barely a skeeter's Johnson!) after free play is taken up. Once past that all is OK.

Do you think I should break it down again and get the eye glass on the hammer and sear? No reason anything should have changed thru working on it but maybe I am being more critical now and it was always there. I did notice the hammer pin could be showing some wear ..... or is that case hardened and all the wear comes from hammer pivot hole?

Anyways ... not sure what to do next other than try and go shoot it .. a lot!!

Oh BTW ... I feel a surge of youthfulness since you called me ''Lad'' ..... Hahaha!

 

[1911Tuner]

Snick

P95 said:

so we must have a sear issue.

Don't jump on the sear just yet. It sounds like you've got a burr or a
sharp edge..either on the trigger stirrup or on the disconnect.

TRake the trigger back out and use a smooth file to cut a light bevel
on the top and bottom of the stirrup at 45 degrees TO the stirrup when
the stirrup itself is perpendicular. Just a little, and stone it lightly afterward.

Feel along the bottom edge of the disconnect for any roughness.
LIGHTLY stone the edge from front to back by swiping it a couple of times
on a stone. All you want to do is break the sharp edge. Don't try to actually cut a bevel.

Lay the disconnector face on a strip of 600-grit paper, using a piece of
glass or other flat, smooth surface and polish it with a figure 8 motion.
No need to make it dead smooth if there are any casting marks..just
smooth it up a little where the trigger stirrup rubs it.

Do the same thing to the sides of the trigger bow, and to the stirrup,
and break any sharp edges again with the stone.

Lay the sear on the paper with the convex side up and with a .020 feeler gauge under the feet and the backside of the sear on the paper, with the sear feet toward you. Push the sear away from you while keeping the feeler gauge under the feet. Just a couple of light strokes will do. Don't try to remove any material...just create a thin, polished line on the backside. Do NOT touch the primary angle, and don't mess with the hammer hooks either.

Draw the tips of the center and left legs of the sear spring at about a 30 degree angle on a medium stone 2 or 3 times, and do 2 or 3 more times, except this time, push the ends on the stone to break any sharp edges.

Wipe it clean, oil everything lightly, and put it all back together. The creep should be much better, and you should have a smooth, rollout break.


Let me know how it turns out.

Tuner

 

[P95Carry]

Thx for the suggestions .... much appreciated. I will endevor to make some time later today and take it down again. I'll carefully check everything and follow your regime.

And report back!

 

[1911Tuner]

Hold the Phone!

One thing I forgot...up too late and gettin' sleepy.

The angle on the backside of the disconnect...where the center leg of the sear spring touches...Polish that surface on the stone and the fine-grit
paper.

Also...the bottom of the sear legs...swipe that part across the paper
lightly 3-4 times. Just a little goes a long way.



Optional:

If you have a piece of old denim and some J&B Bore Cleaner, work some of the bore cleaner into the denim and lay the cloth on a hard, flat surface.
Buff all the polished areas briskly on the impregnated cloth.

The whole job shouldn't take more than about 45 minutes, including the teardown and reassembly.

Sorry for the brainfart...I was up waaaaay past my bedtime last night
when I answered that...

Luck!

Tuner

 

[P95Carry]

Thx Tuner ... all input gratefully received. Much appreciate your trouble.

 

[P95Carry]

Further update

Tuner .......

Well .. I gotta say, I am gettin real adept at full take down! Leaving aside slide aspects .. whole frame assembly was dismantled inside a minute I guess! But I also now have done it several times extra. Let me bring you up to speed.

First - I re-inspected the trigger. With only that in place I applied rear finger pressure and operated it slowly ... it did seem to have a slight ''bind'' and so lightly stoned and polished stirrup top and bottom ..... plus a minimal chamfer to smooth edges of the arms. Arrows point to areas that received attention. The two arrows on the aluminum are there just to show where I had to relieve things yesterday. (The slight ''jagging'' on edges is due to pic reduction.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Next, I did a full reassembly of frame components ... ouch! Still that damnable ''snick''. It is after the slight free play is taken up .... and within the first whisker of movement against resistance. So trigger actually not much to blame IMO.

Took it all down again and proceeded to follow your agenda re disconnect and sear ... oh and spring leaf ends too. All very judicious. I did a partial reassembly this time ... fitting hammer ''loose'' and using finger pressure to simulate mainspring tension. On operating trigger against this ... the same damned ''snick''. It is subtle I might add .... but irritating as heck!

I dismantled again ... and did a bit more careful polishing ... note careful! Several times I did a partial reassembly and test ... same deal!

So - it has me stumped somewhat. before I bother to reassemble and ''put up with it'', thought I'd take some other pics too. So here we have, first ..... sear on right and bevel portion of disconnect ''shoe'' .... attention has been carefully given to both arrowed areas, and altho the bevel shows a lot of machining marks it is now ostensibly ''smooth''. The sear had a very slight rough spot along front edge where arrowed ..... enough to detect with running finger nail along . that was smoothed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Next pic is just for info .... bottom left is the disconnect bearing face on trigger stirrup ..... machining marks yes but smoothed. The sear legs also are slightly smoothed also now. Arrows show where work done.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Finally - the hammer (and disconnect shoe also included again) - now the bottom arrow is only showing an area worked on already but .. note the top arrow, pointing to left side trigger hook ...... a close look might show a slight groove ... the other side seems relatively better. Now the sear is well smooth but I wonder if this is the reason for what happens. Of course, I do not want to do anything at all to this ... but if this is the cause .. is there any remedy??

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh BTW .. earlier on I did throw the original trigger back in .. just to compare ... and the prob is same! I guess I was less sensitive to this ''snick'' when I used the gun before .... not having been very alert!

So .... I wonder if there is any further to go here .... if in fact the pics add anything useful at all.

 

[1911Tuner]

Snick

Howdy P95,

Got back late tonight, so I'll run through the pix a little more carefully tomorrow.

Your "snick" still sounds like disconnector click. Did you notice it before you
swapped triggers, or just since doing it...even on the original trigger...?

You may have to scrape the disconnector timing slot a hair deeper to lose
the snick...Do NOT shorten the disconnector. Sometimes it's caused by a
rough edge on the trigger stirrup or disconnector paddle. Sometimes it's
because the disconnect is a hair too long. Take the disconnect and the
trigger out and check closely for a burr or edge where they touch. Move
the paddle up and down on the stirrup to see if you can feel a slight
snag.

That hammer hook looks ruff sho 'nuff. Looks like somebody's been at it with a file!

The groove on the backside of your sear should have been smoothed with the .020 feeler gauge and the paper. If you cut too much off the backside, you'll narrow the primary engagement angle. Best not to get it narrower than about .020 inch.

I'll get back to the pix in the mornin'...Gettin' sleepy in here. By the way...
Is the creep in the trigger any better since you polished everything?

EDITED:

Lookin' closer...that snick could very well be in that rought hammer hook.
You say it's just at the end of the takeup, just AS pressure starts on the sear...or BEFORE pressure is on the sear? Check carefully...It would only
take a little pressure to move the sear enough to snag on that groove.

 

[P95Carry]

Tuner - thx for droppin in even tho you are pooped.

As I mentioned in the pic post . the ''snick'' was there even when I put old trigger back .... just had not ever registered it fully. Guess I am more familiar with the gun now and so also more critical.

I would say that any creep, per se, is a little better but then maybe I shouldn't have used ''creep'' at all .. the real bugbear is the ''snick''!

sm emailed me and suggested I check inside the frame closely . I did and all seems OK ... with trigger in place alone and with operation against finger pressure .. it is sweet as sweet.

Trigger stirrup is smoothed and burrless . as too is the paddle, tho that looks less than pretty with maching marks ... no rough burr tho.

The sear I did do with .020 feeler . and wouldn't want to reduce the backside any further ... anyways, the ''nail test'' shows no problem now.

Have a good sleep and see how this all looks to you in morning .. if you can spare the time. I have pretty much addressed all aspects I feel .... just that area on hammer hook that bugs me. On close inspection actually - I'd not say it has been gotten at ..... with a file or anything else.

In the end, I may just concede for now and put it all back together .... and then go and shoot the livin crap outa the pup .....

Thx again.

 

[1911Tuner]

Rough

Okay...Got a little rack time and three cups of turbocoffee down my neck.

Man! Those are some rough-lookin' pieces...And that's how they
look AFTER you prepped'em?

The disconnector face needs to be smoother...and so does the angled
part where the sear spring hits it.



Studied that hammer hook real close... The darkened
area at the bottom of the hook has me a little puzzled. It looks like
that was part of the original hook, and the grooved area was made by
the tip of the sear primary angle...the sharp rear edge. That one hammer
hook was takin' all the load of engagment, and the sear ate its way into
the hook trying to equalize the load. May be because the sear and/or
hammer pin isn't straight...or maybe a slight tolerance issue between
the pins, hooks, and sear combined...

Bad news is...that if the hammer hook was soft enough to let it happen,
nothing that you do will help more than temporarily.

I think that hammer hook is your "snick" bug. The tip of the sear stands
on the darkened area when it resets into the hooks...Then, when the
trigger puts just a feather touch against the disconnect/sear, the sear moves enough to let the hammer drop into the groove...snick.

My best advice at this point is to get a new hammer/sear/disconnect set and start over.

Luckto ya, buddy...

Tuner

 

[P95Carry]

Thx Tuner ....... I am exactly on your page with what you say .... makes sense. Appreciate all the input ... and in fact we are now ''chatting'' thru PM about some details.