Tweaking a New Pietta 1851 36 Navy

[BigHunt 1981]

I just got a new Pietta 36 caliber 1851 Navy and was wondering if I should ream the chambers?

I haven't shot the gun yet, but due to the poor accuracy I have gotten out of my 44 caliber I was wondering what could be done to improve things.

I bought a carbide tipped reamer that mikes out at .373" so it should take out about .006' from the chambers that measure .368" and just barely shave a round ball measuring .375", I may buy a .380" mould in the future.

I went through the revolver and had to file the hand to achieve correct timing, but now everything seems tight and the cylinder has good lockup. The arbor seems fine with no slack or binding

So, should I do anything else to this revolver before I shoot it?

I am not new to Cap N' Ball revolvers, but am new to accurizing techniques.

 

[Surculus]

Maybe just take a hone to the chambers & forcing cone? What does the groove diameter mike out at?

 

[Acorn Mush]

Suggest you slug the barrel and compare that measurement with you chamber measurement. The chambers should match the bore size (groove diameter) or perhaps be .001" larger.

 

[J-Bar]

If you don't shoot it before you tinker with it, how are you going to know that you improved it?

Reaming chambers can cause other problems to show up...the tighter ball fit in the barrel can increase pressure overall and promote blowing cap fragments backwards off the nipples.

...the old law of unintended consequences, you know?

 

[Crawdad1]

I went through the revolver and had to file the hand to achieve correct timing,

On a brand new revolver???

OK it happens, but no I wouldn't do anything but check the size of each chamber in relation to the bore. That's it. If everything is set there, like J-Bar said, go shoot it.

 

[BigHunt 1981]

Yes on a brand new revolver. I was not happy. The hammer would not cock without extreme force and the cylinder was binding against the bolt. I bought the gun from Cabalas' and a novice would have had to return it or take it to a gunsmith. It was unshootable out of the box.

I miked the chambers and slugged the bore. Chambers were .368", Bore was .372" in the grooves and .362" in the lands as best I could tell with the 7 groove barrel.

I loaded it up last night with 25 grains of Elephant FFFg, a .375" roundball, bore butter over the chambers and will try it out Saturday.

 

[MM44]

The Pietta .36 Navy I purchased a few years back had the same issues. The cylinder didn't line up with the hammer down and the chambers were too small.
The bolt had to be thinned and filed to allow it to go deeper in the frame and into the cylinder to fix the timing issues, and it now locks up tight and the chambers align with the barrel.
I reamed the chambers .373 giving the chamber size .001 over barrel groove size. This requires using .380 balls.
The load the gun likes best for accuracy is 20 grains Goex.
The front sight was replaced with a longer one I made to get the shots back down on the paper.
Turned a disaster into a very nice shooting pistol with a little work.

 

[Crawdad1]

I miked the chambers and slugged the bore. Chambers were .368", Bore was .372" in the grooves and .362" in the lands as best I could tell with the 7 groove barrel.

I think I see a problem here.

 

[J-Bar]

I think I see a problem here.

Not really.

The lead ball will bump up nicely. Shoot it first, please.

 

[BigHunt 1981]

Yes the chambers are a little small, I will shoot it to see how it groups and see if the ball bumps up to fill the grooves, I cast them out of pure lead so we will see how accuracy is. I can always ream if the accuracy doesn't suit me.

 

[Panzerschwein]

There is a guy on here named 45 Dragoon, all replica cap and ball revolver need a trip to him.

Thank me later.

 

[swathdiver]

Is this a new production Pietta? All the ones I've seen since the 2000s have .367 grooves and .369 chambers and are quite accurate.

If yours really is .004 undersized, definitely bring the chambers .001 or .002 over groove diameter and then use the .380 round ball.

As to your .44 being inaccurate, do you swab the bore every once in a while or shoot it all day before cleaning? From what I've heard, Elephant powder has got to be about the dirtiest, weakest, powder on the market.

 

[BigHunt 1981]

Yes proof marks show its a 2014 production date. Are you sure you are measuring groove to groove and not land to groove? The 7 groove barrels make the lands and grooves on opposite sides of the bore making it difficult to get good measurements. Land to groove measurements does measure .367".

As for the .44 caliber, I don't swab the bore, but I do keep an eye on the barrel and do not notice any excess fouling. Accuracy seems to stay the same throughout a range session regardless of round count. I sometimes use Goex 4F instead of the Elephant, that is just what I had in my possibles bag when I went to load the revolver.

 

[Crawdad1]

From what I've heard, Elephant powder has got to be about the dirtiest, weakest, powder on the market.

I agree, this is where Elephant powder comes from and from what I have read and seen its not so good.

"The S/A Pernambuco Powder Factory was established by Herman Lundgren, a Swedish immigrant, in 1866. This was the first black powder manufacturing plant to operate in Brazil.
Herman Lundgren had the powder plant built by an English contractor following the most up to date manufacturing methods in use in England at that time. The plant property encompassed 470 hectares about 20 kilometers outside the city of Recife in Brazil. At its height, the working portion of the property covered approximately 160,000 square feet with 23,000 feet of railroad track between the various buildings. Typical for a large European designed black powder manufacturing facility of the day, the plant was built around the use of 9 German designed and constructed 5-ton wheel mills.
In September 1992 a container of Elephant brand black powder arrived in the United States. A 33,000 pound container brought into the U.S. through Petro-Explo, Inc., Arlington, Texas. At that time, Petro-Explo, Inc. set up 5 distributors for this black powder."

 

[Crawdad1]

And this is probably the reason,

"Prior to the year 2000 powder production The S/A Pernambuco Powder Factory did not remove the bark from the wood used to make their charcoal. During the wood charring process the bark quickly chars to a very high fixed carbon content. This will cause the powder to throw bit of glowing carbon when ignited and burned. Tree bark adds to bore fouling in black powder firearms as the bark is rich in mineral matter.
Removal of the bark adds to the cost of producing a black powder but is necessary if the powder is to compete with powders made from debarked alder wood charcoal."

or this,

"From 1992 until about 1996 the S/A Pernambuco Powder Factorypurchased a high-purity grade of potassium nitrate produced in Israel by the Haifa Chemical Company. Then a company in Chile began to produce potassium nitrate and it was no longer possible to purchase the Haifa Chemical Company potassium nitrate in South America. The potassium nitrate produced in Chile is a technical grade but none of the impurities are harmful to the powder or the gun in which the powder is used."

 

[BigHunt 1981]

Yes I read the entire history of Elephant powder factory. It suffered several fires and explosions in its last few years. It shut down in 2004 or so. The lots I have are from 1999.

I went to the range today and shot it for the first time. I shot a 2 inch group offhand at 15 yards with the first cylinder, shot about 2 inches right. I shot another one after the barrel was fouled with about 30 rounds. Group was still very acceptable at around 3 inches and still to the right. Gonna clean it and try a rested 25 yard group. Elevation was surprisingly dead on. Usually they all shoot way high.

 

[Crawdad1]

You could also groove your hammer sight.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Cooldill,
Thanks !!! Ha!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com