U.S. has been secretly testing for radiation

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rick_reno

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Watching Muslims - good. In case anyone has forgotten, the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were all Muslim. I hope this effort hasn't stopped.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10588528/

A classified radiation monitoring program, conducted without warrants, has targeted private U.S. property in an effort to prevent an al-Qaida attack, federal law enforcement officials confirmed Friday.

While declining to provide details, including the number of cities and sites monitored, the officials said the air monitoring began after the Sept. 11 attacks and was conducted from publicly accessible areas, which they said made warrants and court orders unnecessary.

U.S. News and World Report first reported the program on Friday. The magazine said the monitoring was conducted at more than 100 Muslim sites in the Washington, D.C. area — including Maryland and Virginia suburbs — and at least five other cities when threat levels had risen: Chicago, Detroit, Las Vegas, New York and Seattle.

The magazine said that at its peak, three vehicles in Washington monitored 120 sites a day, nearly all of them Muslim targets identified by the FBI. Targets included mosques, homes and businesses, the magazine said.

The revelation of the surveillance program came just days after the New York Times disclosed that the Bush administration spied on suspected terrorist targets in the United States without court orders. President Bush has said he approved the program to protect Americans from attack.

Targeted for being Muslims
Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Washington-based civil rights group, said Friday the program "comes as a complete shock to us and everyone in the Muslim community."

"This creates the appearance that Muslims are targeted simply for being Muslims," he said. "I don't think this is the message the government wants to send at this time."

Hooper said his organization has serious concerns about the constitutionality of monitoring on private property without a court order.

Brian Roehrkasse, a Justice Department spokesman, said Friday that the administration "is very concerned with a growing body of sensitive reporting that continues to show al-Qaida has a clear intention to obtain and ultimately use chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear" weapons or high energy explosives.

To meet that threat, the government "monitors the air for imminent threats to health and safety," but acts only on specific information about a potential attack without targeting any individual or group, he said.

"FBI agents do not intrude across any constitutionally protected areas without the proper legal authority," the spokesman said.

In a 2001 decision, the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that police must get warrants before using devices that search through walls for criminal activity. That decision struck down the use without a warrant of a heat-sensing device that led to marijuana charges against an Oregon man.

Local officials not notified
Roehrkasse said the Justice Department believes that case does not apply to air monitoring in publicly accessible areas.

Two federal law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the program is classified, said the monitoring did not occur only at Muslim-related sites.

Douglas Kmiec, a professor of constitutional law at Pepperdine University, said the location of the surveillance matters when determining if a court order is needed.

“The greatest expectation of privacy is in the home,” said Kmiec, a Justice Department official under former presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. “As you move away from the home to a parking lot or a place of public accommodation or an office, there are a set of factors that are a balancing test for the court,” he said.

Despite federal promises to inform state and local officials of security concerns, that never formally happened with the radiation monitoring program, said one official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information.

The official said that after discussions with attorneys, some state and local authorities decided the surveillance was legal, equating it to air-quality monitors set up around Washington that regularly sniff for suspicious materials.

"They weren't targeting specific people, they were just doing it by random, driving around (commercial) storage sheds and parking lots," the official said.

Asked about the program's status, the official said, "I'd understood it had been stopped or significantly rolled back" as early as eight months ago.

Such information-sharing with state and local officials is the responsibility of the Homeland Security Department, which spokesman Brian Doyle said was not involved in the program.
 
Me too... So what using a radiation meter to monitor an area outside someones house or storage somehow violates a persons rights??? Is this what this article is implying and muslims are complaining about. Hey if you have a couple hundred millrads comming from your house or even mine I would want to know why.

Some of these reporters need their head examined or their just trying to stir up the ignorant left.
 
I'm all for the monitoring. It really isn't very difficult to monitoring for unshielded radiation. What a surprise that the government might want to look at muslims or muslim structures?? They also check incoming containers for elevated radiation levels at ports and some airports do screening as well.
 
hey if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.If they monitored me it wouldnt bother me a bit because i dont mess around with anything to do with terrorism.In fact i would be proud that im doing my part by not getting all up in arms about it,they have to do it for our countries safety.So my question is why does it bother them so.
 
Good, I've hoped all along someone was testing.

Now to the real problem. Who is leaking these stories? It is getting to be a problem. If fed.gov can go hammer and tong after the leaker of Plame, it surely can go and do likewise with these leaks. Someone needs to have their head piked.
 
I so see this as a violation of privacy rights. There have been drug cases thrown out due to using FLIR camera's to spot "extra" heat coming from ones home. Need a warrant for that, need one for this too.

Whats next "camera's that can look through walls", ah no warrant needed as we are not going inside the house. :barf:

we are dying a slow death by a thousand pin pricks, and it seems that some or more than willing to accept this fate.

Remember it is for your safety but where does it end?
 
Now to the real problem. Who is leaking these stories? It is getting to be a problem. If fed.gov can go hammer and tong after the leaker of Plame, it surely can go and do likewise with these leaks. Someone needs to have their head piked.

What I don't like about Bush is that's wobbly on too many things (the border, spending, et al.). If only he really were a Texan and could exorcise the spectre of his old man. Sandy Berger got a pass--why? Bush, looking impeachment in the eye, needs to come back swinging. We need to root out the leakers, who are committing a serious felony, and make an example of them. This is wartime.
 
Supreme court ruled against remote observance in a home.

molonlabe said:
Me too... So what using a radiation meter to monitor an area outside someones house or storage somehow violates a persons rights??? Is this what this article is implying and muslims are complaining about. Hey if you have a couple hundred millrads comming from your house or even mine I would want to know why.

Some of these reporters need their head examined or their just trying to stir up the ignorant left.
 
Why do you have curtains? Why do you use envelopes? Why do you wear clothes?

grizz5675 said:
hey if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.If they monitored me it wouldnt bother me a bit because i dont mess around with anything to do with terrorism.In fact i would be proud that im doing my part by not getting all up in arms about it,they have to do it for our countries safety.So my question is why does it bother them so.
 
Supreme court ruled against remote observance in a home.

No, they ruled against warrantless searches of a home using thermal imagers. That is an important difference.

mrmeval said:
Why do you have curtains? Why do you use envelopes? Why do you wear clothes?

That is ridiculous comparison. A search for radiation yields only that there either is or is not radiation representing a danger to everyone else. It doesn't let the Feds peek into your house, read your mail or see you naked.

Since there is no 4th Amendment right to privacy regarding radioactive material that cannot be legally owned, and since no other privacy is violated by the search, I would say this particular program is a really poor example for those seeking to prove civil rights violations.
 
This one's an interesting question. On one hand, it does have some conceptual similarities to IR cameras, in that it lets you see what's going on behind the walls.

On the other hand, IR isn't inherently harmful; ionizing radiation is. If your house is emitting ionizing radiation (alpha, beta, gamma, X-ray, etc.), you're not only emitting signs of doing something criminal, you're actively harming other people (by exposing them to said ionizing radiation). A very good case could be made that the monitoring isn't just searching for the handling of radioactive materials, but also looking for the harmful emissions themselves--just as looking for somebody shooting out his window would be arrested. The radiation is just a silent, invisible bullet.

I don't like the direction it will go when the Feds use it as precedent, but this one's probably reasonable.
 
The scary question is this- are they just being "careful?" Or are they looking for a nuke that they know to out there?
 
Dead said:
I so see this as a violation of privacy rights. There have been drug cases thrown out due to using FLIR camera's to spot "extra" heat coming from ones home. Need a warrant for that, need one for this too.

Whats next "camera's that can look through walls", ah no warrant needed as we are not going inside the house. :barf:

we are dying a slow death by a thousand pin pricks, and it seems that some or more than willing to accept this fate.

Remember it is for your safety but where does it end?
Commerical radiation monitors only detect the level at their location, they cant read the radiation at another location. Its a small difference, but very important.

Kharn
 
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