Unbelievable gun auction for CCW!

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Monkeyleg

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I'm still "coming down" after our WCCA/WCCM banquet for concealed carry in WI that was held tonight. It's been a loooonng day, but I can't wind down just yet.

I also cannot believe that there were some guns that didn't sell at auction.

Like a brand-new Kimber Raptor. We had a reserve on it of just over $1,000. I told the auctioneer to not accept any offer of less than $50 over cost (dealer cost plus 5.65% sales tax that we would pay for the guns that sold).

Nobody bought a brand-spanking new Kimber Raptor for $1050!!!!!

There were guns that sold, but sold very cheap.

OTOH, there were some unusual collectibles that did very well. A Stinger pen gun that we got for well under $300 went for $600.

I'm still trying to figure it all out. If any THR members who were present want to chime in, please do.

Everything was such a blur that it will take me all of tomorrow to sort out the checks and the credit card slips, and compare them to what we paid the dealer(s).

Something tells me I'm going to be sick. ;)
 
I wish I could have attended, I heard Mr. Ayoob interviewed on NRA radio it sounds like it was a great event.
 
****! That was yesterday wasn't it.

:banghead:

I was going to volunteer too. If I'd only gotten a reminder, but Dick has gone off more than enough about the WI pro-gunners not being "self-starters".

I know where blame lies. :eek:

I was never going to be able to bid on any guns, but I'm going to pony up the $75 admittance fee as a donation to the WCCM ASAP.

From what you're saying, I can't tell if it went well or not. I hope it did.
 
I didn't go even though I said I would. :(

But it sounds like it went really well and you raised some money.

:)
 
AJ, the event netted $6324 for our PAC. Not as much as I hoped, but still not bad.

I was mistaken about the Kimber Raptor. Somebody actually did buy it for $1050. That's one heck of a deal.

The pistol I wanted--a Ruger NRA commemorative MK II--went for $400, nearly double what we paid for it.

The gun I really wanted, but couldn't afford, was a brand-new nickle S&W Model 21. It's a limited production gun, and retails for about $850. Somebody got it for under $800. Might have even been closer to $750.

When the bidding stalled at $550 on a certificate for Ayoob's LFI-1 course, which is worth $800, I got pretty angry with the audience. Don't know if that's the way it came across, but I was really mad.

So, the WCCM is now sitting with about $10K, and no shortage of candidates who want all or a part of that.

Fortunately, the CCW instructors will be starting their classes in August, so more money will be coming in.

As for Massad, he was fantastic as always. The man's mind is a real wonder.
 
Dear Ms. Barbara:

I regret to inform you that your friends, Brad and Pam, had nothing but nice things to say about you at last evening's banquet.

Please rest assured that I will continue to seek out people who will testify to your crankiness.

Yours truly,
;)
 
Actually Barbara, I was looking forward to meeting you last night: sorry you couldn't make it!

Dick: to me, you DEFINATELY came across as upset. And I really can't understand why folks weren't more willing to pony up some cash (unless they're broke like me). Had our finances been just a touch better (and not all THAT much better), we would've been bidding more than we did...

For those that missed it: Mas was absolutely AWESOME (especially for someone who rides around in a Barbie van). And Dick, I promise: if we ever do another dinner with auctions afterward, I'll make sure to have more money available (I MIGHT even have a gun to donate: we'll see)...
 
I wish I could have. I sent the quilt and some friends, so I guess I'm not a complete slacker but I usually don't back out on something I say I'll do. Just a combination of things: Kid left for camp that day, van needs rear brakes, work is hectic, etc.
 
Please don't be mad.

I hate to bring this up, really I do - but I researched the prices of the guns you had at the bottom of one of your earlier e-mails, made notes on what I thought would be a good price, and brought the list with me.

The Raptor (which wasn't on the list) going for $1050, well, that's just pretty much what they go for to be honest.

The Kel-Tec P3AT on the other hand (exactly like the one which I picked up at Gander Mountain in June for $284 after tax & fees) went for $350 - that was cool.

Forgive me for saying this, as I know they're a bunch of nice guys and really support CCW, but perhaps the supplier of the new guns, maybe - just maybe - the prices on everything they sell are a wee bit high? (Just my opinion, and well, that of most of my gun friends)

And as far as the LFI cert goes - (I've taken it twice by the way, not counting all the other LFI classes I've attended, so I wasn't bidding on it) - LFI-1 has been sold here in the state fairly often with significant discounts in the years since the last WCCA banquet. That may have had something to do with the $550 bid winning.

True: LFI-1 will save your bacon - it's a harsh, cold slap in the face in terms of the fantasy 99% of shooters possess regarding using a gun for self-defense. And not everybody's up for the big purchase or the stress of being locked in a room with Mas Ayoob for 20+ hours (I kid!).

But it's a big chunk to bite off and chew, especially with all these $75 guys riding the MN train around. If I was the type of person that never intended on carrying, but just wanted a permit in my wallet, I know which way I'd go. My hat is off to them for helping the WCCA.
 
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Dolomite, yes, the prices at The Shooters Shop are high. And you're right about the price on the Raptor. I was thinking of the Grand Raptor when I mentioned $1200-$1300 being the usual price.

However, we paid the sales tax on these guns. So, the guy who got the Raptor for $1050 actually only paid about $992 or so for it.

I tried to get as many used guns as possible, since there's a better margin on them.

Even the antique and collectible guns didn't do as well as I expected.

As for the LFI certificate, at the 2002 banquet both LFI certificates went for full value.

The idea was to raise money. You'll notice that I bid $350 on that Ruger MK II. That's a $299 gun. That it went for $400 (or was it higher?) was great.

I was hoping that people wouldn't look at the price and say, "oh I can get it for less at Gander Mountain," but rather say "I'm paying for the gun and contributing X amount of dollars to the cause."

Strings, it's too bad that I came across as angry. I don't think that's appropriate at such a function. But it's awfully difficult to help raise money for candidates. As I mentioned in my tirade, Doyle can send one of his campaign staffers to have a 30 minute cup of coffee with an executive from any of a zillion companies that want state contracts, and walk out with a $10,000 check for Doyle's campaign.

It's hard to compete with that. We don't have anything to sell.
 
>It's hard to compete with that. We don't have anything to sell<

well... that's not QUITE right. We don't have anything to sell to big corporations. We DO have something to sell to the people though: freedom and responsibility. Quite honestly, I don't think people WANT freedom anymore, because it comes with responsibility...
 
Correct, Bill (Strings). But you probably noticed that nobody wrote a check for $10,000 the other night.

Apparently, for many folks, the price for freedom is maybe $50 over what they can get a gun at Gander Mountain for.

Meanwhile, Doyle is selling state contracts to the road builders, travel companies, software companies, indian casino tribes, building contractors, and any other vested interests that will give him vast amounts of money.

Tomorrow will be an interesting day, as it will be the first day that the public will be able to get access to campaign finance reports for the period ended June 30th.

If Mark Green doesn't show some significant improvements in raising funds, I think we're going to see a problem.
 
Green raises more than Doyle this year
But governor is still sitting on bigger war chest
How did the two campaigns do in the last period compared with earlier efforts?

One measure: Doyle raised about $1.6 million, compared with $1.1 million in the previous six months. That's an increase of about 45%.

Green, meanwhile, went from raising about $617,000 in the previous period to nearly $1.7 million in the last one. That's an increase of roughly 175%.

The reports filed Thursday show Green raised $1,682,009, or $59,151 more than the $1,622,858 that Doyle took in.

Both were able to increase their bottom line by about $1 million. Doyle now has nearly $5.2 million in the bank. Green has nearly $3.2 million.

That doesn't include the bulk of the money raised by last week's visit to Milwaukee by President Bush. More than 600 people attended the $1,000-a-plate dinner.

Once all expenses are paid, the visit is expected to net the campaign about $500,000, with about two-thirds of the donations coming after the six-month period ended, Green's campaign said.

Charles Franklin, a University of Wisconsin-Madison political scientist, said Doyle is viewed as vulnerable and the race is considered winnable by both parties, which tends to "make the money flow."
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=474650
 
Sorry, but I go to auctions to find bargains...

...I pay the big gate to support the cause, but I'm not paying retail for auctioned goods...I would expect the items to be maybe a donation or loss leader stuff that the benefactor uses for advertising or dead-loss tax writeoffs or some such...
 
Apparently, for many folks, the price for freedom is maybe $50 over what they can get a gun at Gander Mountain for.
A somewhat unfair comment, on several levels.

Aside from that, had I known that sales tax was being picked up by the WCCA ahead of time, I would have bid differently.
 
I know what my armchair quarterbacking is worth, (a mouse fart) especialy since I'm the doofus who let time get away from me, and missed the event completely.

(To make it worse, I live only about 18 blocks from Klemmer's. :fire:)

However, I too am somewhat surprised you got the gun's from Shooters. I know you've got a business relationship with them with the website and all, but still...

There was no kitchen-table FFL in SE WI/Milwaukee Metro area willing to help the WCCM at cost?

:confused:
 
Dolomite, Clipper: sorry you feel that way.

This was billed as a fund-raising banquet. I don't know what else to say.

"I would expect the items to be maybe a donation or loss leader stuff that the benefactor uses for advertising or dead-loss tax writeoffs or some such..."

It's getting pretty hard to get gun dealers to donate anything. On top of that, a political action committee cannot take contributions from corporations. That means that the owner of pretty much any gun shop would have to buy the guns himself, with his own after-tax dollars, and then donate them personally.

That gets to be very expensive, especially if the owner is in the 28% federal tax bracket (or higher).

As for the idea of tax-writeoffs, please don't take offense at what I have to say.

When I had my own photo studio, I'd get art directors who wanted me to shoot ads for free for them for various causes. They'd say, "dude, it's a tax write-off."

I would then ask them to hand me a dollar, and then I would give them 22 cents.

They'd say, "what's this?"

I'd say, "that's the value of a tax write-off: 15% federal corporate tax, and 7% state corporate tax. The other 78 cents comes out of my pocket or, in this case, yours. How does it feel to get a tax-write off?"
 
AJ, in hindsight I might have done better by going to Fletchers. But the Shooters Shop has a much better selection.

BTW, there was a gun that I didn't realize did not sell, so what I paid the Shooters Shop today was less. That means that the banquet netted about $7,000.

We'll still bring in about $30,000 or more for the year in contributions.
 
Just another thought: why should the owner of the Shooters Shop, or the owner of Fletchers (both of whom have already given us a lot of support) donate guns just so people can get screaming deals?

I'll repeat what I said the other night: it was a fund-raiser, not a rummage sale.
 
I'm replying to myself again, which means I just can't let this go.

Before critics of what I've said come back to reply (if they will), please allow me to detail just what went into this banquet.

Let's begin with the financials (all of which are public record):

--cost of banquet hall and food and phone line (for credit cards): $1938 plus change
--cost of credit card terminal and one month of credit card services: $110
--cost of first run of 1,000 flyers advertising the event, and 3,000 flyers to be distributed at the May NRA convention*: ~$110.00
--cost of guns sold from the Shooters Shop: $7138.
--cost of guns sold from anonymous private collector: $2725

Total expenses = (within a few dollars) $12,021.00

Net "profit" after expenses = approximately $7,000.00

Now, let's look at the human cost:

--distribution of flyers to gun stores, clubs and ranges: unknown
--volunteer time at the NRA convention: unknown (Strings, aka "Hunter Rose," aka "Bill" was there; so was I; and I understand that there were a few others who volunteered to show up who did. There were also many, many people who said they'd distribute flyers outside the convention, but who never showed up. *That's why we were left with probably 2900 of the 3000 flyers).
--banquet volunteers: Sharon V (the blonde in the red sweater who sat at the admission table all night, ate her food there, and didn't get to see the "show"); Mike M (the big guy with the beard and gray-striped shirt who was working like crazy to record all of the auction bids, and get payment, and who took a half-day off from his own business to do so); Larry C. (who didn't eat dinner, but instead watched the guns while the dinner and show went on); Jerry K (who took a full vacation day to help out); Chuck R (who was waiting patiently until I had the full list of guns, and then printed out the signs for them); Janet H (known here as "Spoon," who walked the guns around the room during the auction); Jack S (who worked the admissions table); and others
--"ralliers" like Chris T and Patrick M who got a lot of people to buy tickets for the banquet.
--volunteers like Pete from the Shooters Shop who took his day off to bring the guns to the banquet, shine them up, answer questions, and then return them to the shop sometime after midnight on his "day off."

And let's not forget Massad Ayoob, as he was the main reason why people showed up. Massad didn't ask for a dime for his great speech. He did ask if his guest could get a seat at the dinner, which was a question that didn't need to be asked.

Let's compare that to THR's favorite outspoken 2A supporter, Ted Nugent. His folks wanted $25,000 for him to to show up. Plus first-class airfare, and a five-star hotel.

And let's not forget people like David Maglio and Andy Vissers from Firearms Training Associates who spent a lot of hours coordinating Massad's schedule, as well as contributing certificates and direct contributions to the WCCM.

And, then, there's my time. (Yeah, I know, I know: don't volunteer ;)).

I spend on average an hour a night recording contributions (both on paper and electronically), or just balancing the accounts. That doesn't count the hours that I have to spend calling people who sent in corporate checks, or checks that represent contributions from second party contributors, or anything else that's remotely illegal. And a lot of those people like to talk. For hours.

How much time have I spent? I don't know. I do know that it will be at least a week before I have all of the contributions from those who paid that night recorded both on paper and on the state elections board Excel spreadsheet.

Add all of the above up. Let's put the volunteer time at $10 an hour. This was an expensive event.

Dolomite, Clipper: if I had been able to get the owner of The Shooters Shop to just give $7138 in cash, and the anonymous private collector to give $2725 in cash, the banquet wouldn't even have been necessary! Those two contributions would have exceeded what the banquet brought in.

Instead of recording 100 to 200 contributions, I could have just recorded two. It would have taken less than half an hour. No volunteers necessary, and nobody would have to have taken time off of work.

But that's not the way it works, and I just have no idea why.

The greatest number of emails from people who say that they're "willing to do anything" to help get concealed carry passed come the very day after we've been defeated.

And the people who say they're "willing to do anything" generally mean they're willing to do nothing more than complain. If they were more willing, they would have contacted me before our defeats.

I'm now at a point in my life where I really don't think I have a dog in this fight. My chances of being asked to "step out of the car, sir" and be patted down are slim. I drive an older Saturn with "Endangered Species" plates (a hand-me-down from my wife). I'm not exactly Public Enemy.

But I do plan on continuing the WCCA/WCCM until at least after the November elections, if for no other reason than the fact that nobody else seems to want the job. (There are a couple of people who have said they want at least a part of it; I hope they're sincere).

Dolomite, you described my comment about $50 for freedom as being "unfair."

Spend five years going up to Madison, trying to rally people for CCW, trying to raise money for candidates (which, by the way, is how you get invited to the Capitol, I'm sorry to say), and do all the other crap that you will soon find yourself told to do...or else.

Then let's talk about what's "fair" and what is not.

There is no "fair." There's just reality. And anybody who thinks that their $50 contribution is all they have to do to guarantee that we will win is living in some alternative reality.

Yes, Green has raised more money this year than Doyle. But Doyle still has a incredible lead over Green when it comes to cash on hand.

There's my arguments. There's my whines. There's my rants. There's my self-imposed self-pity.

Tell me I'm wrong, though. You cannot.

We will either win what I have now dubbed the "trifecta," meaning the control of the Governorship, the Senate and the Assembly, or we will lose. Completely. No if's and's or but's about it.

And if that cost isn't worth $50 over what Gander Mountain charges for a gun, then God help us all.
 
I realize you worked hard on this, but no one "owes" a dollar amount. Had I gone to the banquet, I wouldn't have bought anything, especially if all you had were high ticket items. If I had bid on anything, it wouldn't have been big bucks, for sure.

You may want to consider lower cost items that could have been donated so that those of us who can't drop $1,000 at a time would have a way of contributing?

Regardless, not one person who paid $75.00 for a meal ticket deserves to be made to feel like they're a cheapskate for not bidding top dollar for anything.
 
Well, Barbara, it looks like I'm the only one here who holds the opinion that I do. So I'll just have to let it go.
 
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