undersized buckshot

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multigauge

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I have been reading THR for 2 years but I have never posted a thread. In checking the archives I only found one reference to this topic. Buckshot loading patterns were made over a century ago based on the size of buckshot and bores.

With the advent of shotcups in the 1960's buckshot was usually still loaded without a shotcup since it was considered a short-range load. Recently with shooters not wanting lead streaks in their barrels and a longer range load, buckshot has been loaded in shotcups, sometimes with buffering. The problem is that the average shotcup wall is about .030" so the inside of the cup is about .060" smaller. This is roughly about the difference as one gauge smaller.

Shooters who wanted the standard 12 gauge load with 9 pellets of 00 Buck with 3 layers of 3 found it would not fit in a shotcup which was the size of a 16 gauge. So some maunfacturers started using .315 shot for 00 Buck instead of .330. Fiocchi, for example makes no mention of this fact on their box. With each pellet weighing 13% less, what was a 1 1/8 ounce load is now less than an ounce.

I would guess that any buckshot load with a shotcup either uses undersized buckshot, a different stacking pattern, or the pellets are out of round from being forced into too small of an opening. A possible exception could be Federal which uses its "patented spiral stacking process." I don't know the details of this but such a stacking pattern could not have a flat top or bottom on the shot column.

I am not saying that these are bad loads, I just think that it's not right for maunfacturers to do this without telling the customers. Has anyone else measured other loads to see if this is the case?
 
Imported Photos 00002.jpg

Here you go. Remington #12B00

9 pelet 00 buck. The caliper read .332". Now they are a little out of round with .320-.340" abouts average around the sphere.
 
You are right though, three on top of three doesn't work. The shot cup is deep enough that there are two on top of two kinda, witht he last one by itself on top with the buffer supporting the whole thing.
 
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I cut a Remington express 00 buck shell apart a while ago. If i remember correctly, they measured from .329 to .335. Aside from the smallest pellet, the consistency was pretty close around .33. This was also only one shell and does not constitute a test, i was just curious.
 
Sellier and Bellot also has full size 00 buckshot. The case is transparent so you can see that there are 3 layers of 3 with no shotcup. Winchester and Federal have fairly opaque cases, but you can see that in most of the shells the shot is not stacked, but is dropped in and compressed. Many of the cases have noticeable bulges caused by some of the pellets. It looks like they may not even chamber easily, let alone what might happen to the shot when it hits the forcing cone and choke.

By the way, the traditional stacking patterns (without shotcup) are as follows:

Number of shot per layer:

0000 Buck: 10 gauge-2

000 Buck: 10 gauge-3, 12 gauge-2

00 Buck: 12 gauge-3, 16 gauge-2

0 Buck: 10 gauge-4

1 Buck: 12 gauge-4, 16 gauge-3, 20 gauge-2

2 Buck: 16 gauge-4, 20 gauge-3, 28 gauge-2

3 Buck: 10 gauge-7, 20 gauge-4, 28 gauge-3

4 Buck: 12 gauge-7

Those that stack 7 per layer will have 1 or 2 less total depending on the number of layers, since the center column builds up faster than the rings.

I've never seen 3 Buck loaded in 10 gauge. Since 4 Buck stacked efficiently in the 12 gauge, they copied the load into the 10 gauge. With a thin-walled shotcup they can still pack 7 #4 Buck per layer in a shotcup in the 10 gauge. When folks wanted 54 #4 Buck pellets in a 3 1/2" 12 gauge shotcup, they either started dumping the pellets into a longer shotcup with no attempt at stacking, or else used smaller sized shot.

I have also noticed that a small manufacturer offers 0000 Buck in 12 gauge. I have no idea how they stack .38 balls in a .729 case!
 
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Sorry to resuurect this dead thread but I did find that there is truth to the undersized shot thing. I bought a bunch of Fiocchi Exacta Buck Shot (12HV00BK). I wanted to give it a torture test becasue there is a big gaping hole in the crimp. I soak one in water for 10 minutes and then cut it open. The powder was dry and the primer went off. I measure the shot and it was indeed undersized. It measured from .312"-.317". It has a shotcup that has the pettals conected by thin webs and no buffer. I haven shot any yet but will give a report when I can get to it.
 
Dixie Buckshot

The Tri-Ball Buckshot I measured recently had a diameter .602 for all three pellets.
 
Dixie buckshot

RMc, since the shot cup change, I've been able to choke down to .685 to .695 and still get a great pattern out 30 to 40 yards. Before, I was down to .665 or so. What have you found to work best? Best, John
 
stange coincedence I just tested (fooling around mostly) some older buckshot that had no cup vs newer loads with it.
the pattern is so much better and tighter at 30 yds off a bench with a 12ga 3" mag 28" barrel w/modified choke that it's worth it to me even if undersized.
 
I did a random sample of the Hornady buckshot I got for reloading an it all came in at
.240" which is what #4 buck is. Maybe $5.00 a lb buck is worth the extra cost compared to factory stuff, I don't have any 00 to check.

FWIW BP buckshot manual states no benefits to stacking #4 and 00 in 2-3/4" 12 gauge should go 2 pellet layers; 4 in the cup 5 above or mix=9 in their shotcups.
 
The BP buckshot manual is interesting but it has numerous errors. For example they say you can tightly fit four 00 pellets to a layer in a 10 gauge hull without hull pimples. Four normal sized 00 buck have a diameter of .797, so to force that into a .775 case would cause the pellets to be quite out of round before they ever hit the choke. They should have advised 0 buck which makes a four pellet circle of .773.

They also suggest that it is not important to stack certain sizes, probably because the BPD wad is so thick that no regular stacking pattern can result from certain buckshot sizes.

BPI also sells .315 pellets in their catalog that they call 00 buck.
 
I loaded up 20 rounds of #4 buck 10 I stacked 10 I didn't there was small differences between the 2 at 25 yards but that could just be the variances in the load.

I only tried a few at 50 and they were all acceptable to me so no big deal, stacking 27 pellets is tedious.
 
RMc, since the shot cup change, I've been able to choke down to .685 to .695 and still get a great pattern out 30 to 40 yards. Before, I was down to .665 or so. What have you found to work best? Best, John
bignotti

Dixie Tri-Ball 12 gauge 3"
Remington 870 Express 26"
Briley extended full choke, exit diam. .695"

Patterns run around 4" at 40 yards and shoot to point of aim with just the bead and vent rib.

RMc
 
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I've been loading my own for years. Always use Remington RXP-12 wads in all my loads. I sit around the evening before a loading session trimming petals off the wads with my Uncle Henry. It's never occurred to me that anyone would be doing it differently. Smaller pellets. Damn.

rich
 
I would like to know about the diference between ashotcop and an other load. tightens a shotcup the angle of the spread or does it delay the point when the shotload starts to scatter?
 
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