Sniper X
Member
Texasrifleman is right about the fact that in some states you don't even have to tell the cops you are CCW. Here in New Mexico it is a state of non disclosure as well.
unload your gun before going into a gunshow?
- Thread starter lionken07
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In NC it's illegal to carry anywhere admission is charged. That makes gun shows a no-carry zone.
Personally, even if my CCW is zip-tied, I'm not too concerned about a mass shooting happening at a gun show. There are thousands of guns and tens of thousands of rounds of ammo nearby. The perp wouldn't last too long.
Personally, even if my CCW is zip-tied, I'm not too concerned about a mass shooting happening at a gun show. There are thousands of guns and tens of thousands of rounds of ammo nearby. The perp wouldn't last too long.
Something to think about when asked if you have a loaded gun at a gunshow... Most ccw holders are decent people with experience carrying and handling firearms. But all it takes at a gunshow is one armchair cowboy who has watched too many movies packing a shiny, new, loaded 1911 with the hammer back and the safety off.... he grabs it out of the holster to show it off and boom... ND.... even if no one gets hurt,end of the gunshows forever.... Imagine the fuel that would give the antis.
bogie
Member
Some of you theoreticians may be a little too tightly wrapped...
I've NEVER heard of a "mass shooting" at a gun show.
I -have- witnessed unintentional discharges...
Consider this... 50% of the population is on the downslope of the bell curve. When Bubba shows up at the gun show with his bambiblaster, I want the guy at the door to make Darn Sure that it's unloaded. Because Bubba's fired a grand total of 30 rounds out of the thing in the past three years, and doesn't really know how it works.
If you wanna carry your Glock .40, and you're professional enough to do so, fine. But it better stay in your damn holster, because we all know what happened to the LAST fellow who proclaimed that he was professional enough to do that...
I've NEVER heard of a "mass shooting" at a gun show.
I -have- witnessed unintentional discharges...
Consider this... 50% of the population is on the downslope of the bell curve. When Bubba shows up at the gun show with his bambiblaster, I want the guy at the door to make Darn Sure that it's unloaded. Because Bubba's fired a grand total of 30 rounds out of the thing in the past three years, and doesn't really know how it works.
If you wanna carry your Glock .40, and you're professional enough to do so, fine. But it better stay in your damn holster, because we all know what happened to the LAST fellow who proclaimed that he was professional enough to do that...
If they believed in the 2A they wouldn't post their show as a no carry zone. That makes them 2A bigots and promoting the show just for the money. One can sell stuff one doesn't believe in as a capitalist.sacp81170a said:
That is exactly what I do as I explained in a previous post.sacp81170a said:
bogie
Member
Oh yeah...
All you guys who say "It won't happen to me, because I'm too safe."
That's what EVERYONE who has an unintentional discharge says, right up until they have a funny ringing noise in their ears, and they frantically look around at the folks around them to see if anyone has any extra orifices.
I -know- I'm going to eventually let one loose. That's why I'm a bit paranoid about safety. Which means I'll probably not do that. But I always assume that the possibility is there...
All you guys who say "It won't happen to me, because I'm too safe."
That's what EVERYONE who has an unintentional discharge says, right up until they have a funny ringing noise in their ears, and they frantically look around at the folks around them to see if anyone has any extra orifices.
I -know- I'm going to eventually let one loose. That's why I'm a bit paranoid about safety. Which means I'll probably not do that. But I always assume that the possibility is there...
sacp81170a
Member
I work security at the show here in Springdale. We average 4-5 people every day who bring in "unloaded" guns that are loaded. One young guy came in with a couple of friends and 5 long arms that they were helping him carry. He handed me the first one, a nice Remington 700 in .243. I pointed the muzzle in a safe direction just as his friend asked him "Is it loaded?"
"Of course not, it's been in my safe since deer season last year," was his reply. I pulled the bolt to the rear and out popped a nice ballistic tipped .243 round. The guy's mouth dropped open and he mumbled something about checking the other guns. I told him to stop and let me check them so we wouldn't get ahead of ourselves and do something unsafe.
I've got nearly a shoebox full of odds and ends ammunition, all from "unloaded" guns being carried into a gun show. I'm usually pretty nice about it unless they've been sweeping other folks with muzzles and generally being unsafe. You can call 'em 2nd amendment bigots all you want, I call 'em safety conscious.
Judging from the experiences I've had on the other side of the table from you, all of us need to help each other out. BTW, when I go in to look around at the show, I leave my loaded weapon and ammo with the person who's relieving me at the door. None of us has special status when it comes to safety.
Speaking of ND's , as of today, I have had zero.... but it is VERY easy to do. Point in case.... at a gunshow, friend asked me to take his S&w 41 in, he was trying to sell it and carrying another long gun to sell also. The guy at the door checks it, but no tie.... I am carrying it around, looking, someone asks to see it.... takes it and the first thing they do is pull the trigger and snap... Where the guy at the door checked it, it was cocked.... It was empty, checked at the door, but why would anyone grab the trigger and pull without checking to see if it was loaded first ?? Thats how easy it can happen.
Pretty much only in a gun show are people routinely handling guns. The only ND I have ever heard about in a public place in my area was at a gun show.
The handling and manipulation of guns at a gun show is what makes it different from other places I carry.
All the shows I have ever been to in VA require guns be unloaded. You can sneak it in loaded, I did once by accident, but if you do please don't pull it out to show people or try out holsters.
Bingo. You can absolutely CCW at a gun show- you aren't breaking any laws. If discovered, you would be asked to leave (just like a restaurant asking a person to leave who takes his shoes off, etc). Actually, some really bad things can happen if you do otherwise- the cop could discharge it accidently (which has happened) or it could be stolen from your car. Why not just keep it on you, remain quiet about it, and enjoy your browsing?
I think far too many of you guys see the cop at the entrance, get nervous, and go into a 5th grader-who-was-caught-cheating mode... and think you have to volunteer that you are carrying, etc.
If anyone can give me examples where patrons were patted down at a gun show prior to entering, go for it.
OK...sacp81170a said:
I think we may be talking about two different things.
I object to gunshows posting out those folks with CCW's. I don't have any problem at all with the show checking the rubes carrying in a rifle, two shotguns and granpa's 150 year old 1st edition ever .22LR single shot, all slung over one shoulder to make sure they're unloaded. Two different issues.
CCW'ers are not a safety risk. The folks I've described above in some cases are.
jrfoxx
Member
Well, I've read many articles posted right here on THR of ND's in store bathrooms, courthouse bathrooms... just within the last week a guy in a restaurant ND'd into his buddies leg (story was also post on THR),then there's the famous video of the DEA agent that ND'd into his thigh in a classroom, etc. I'd say thats pretty good evidence that it doesn't just happen in gun shows, nor is it necessarily more LIKELY to happen in a gun show, as I have read more articles posted here about ND's happening OUTSIDE of gun shows than inside, so again I ask, why don't people be "extra safe" like they are advocating at a gun show, and make sure their carry gun is unloaded and zip tied in classrooms, restaurants, bathrooms, etc? Because remember,
, so why only be "extra safe" at a gun show, when evidence proves its just as likely to happen anywhere, and just as easily and often? Is it only right to be "extra safe" at a gun show,but not anywhere else? An ND in ANY crowded, or even moderately crowded,location has a pretty good chance of the round hitting someone. Whats so special about a gun show compared to Walmart, Cabelas (they sell holsters just like gun shows), Sportsman's Warehouse (holsters again), a bathroom where one likely has to handle their ccw when doing business that requires dropping your pants (at least one of these incidents involved a cop no less, but non-leo's have done the same thing), etc
I just don't see what the difference is in ANY location where someone who is an idiot can ND. Just don't see why I should be disarmed because of what someone else MAY do. Thats the same excuse anti's use against us wanting carry in collages, schools,the workplace or anywhere for that matter.They Say that because someone COULD go on a killing spree, of ave an ND, or miss thier target and hit an Innocent, that NO ONE except cops should be allowed to have guns, let alone carry them in public. And we all scream bloody murder about how we should not be punished because of what someone else MAY do. Sounds like the same arguments to me.
But, If you don't feel safe carrying at a gun show or just don't want to, then feel free, doesn't bother me at all. I just don't understand the reasoning behind it, but maybe its me, and thats OK too.
By the way, I understand the whole insurance liability thing, it's the same reason LOTS of places dont want people to carry.Liaility. I'm addressing those who say carrying in a gun show is more dangerous, or more likely to result in an ND than anyplace else, and who say you can quickly load an unloaded gun, and/or get a zip tie off, but who wouldnt THINK about carrying that way everyplace else they go, and would likely mock those who suggested or advocated doing just that.
I have been to MANY gun shows, in 4 states, and have personally NEVER seen armed security or LEO's, so if eveyone followed the rules and/or suggestions of posters here, all we have are unloaded, zip-tied guns to try to stop an attack.Again, people rob gun stores in broad daylight, with ARMED customers and employes,inside, and they rob and kill in churches, and schools with armed resource officers and/or campus police, etc, so you'll be hard pressed to convince me that it cant happen at a gunshow. As MANY of us say ALL the time on THR, it CAN happen anytime, anyplace. Be prepared. You cant count on someone else to protect you.
blackcash88
member
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- Mar 30, 2008
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- 885
For all the people saying just to keep it concealed and carry anyway, could you get in trouble for lying to a police officer if you're caught later? A lot of the gun shows I've been to have an actual uniformed officer at the front asking people.
It's not the carrying in the gunshow that matters to me, it's the carrying to and from where I want it. The Orlando story is true, some guy had a whole trailer full of guns jacked in broad daylight. The shows here won't even let you unload, all ammo has to be in your car! Screw that!
If it's not illegal, I say carry anyway.
Them - "are you carrying? All weapons need to be secured and unloaded"
Me - "No" and walk right in fully loaded. Easy!
Just don't start looking at holsters while you're there. The Orlando show ALWAYS has uniformed troopers/sheriffs at each door.
If it's not illegal, I say carry anyway.
Them - "are you carrying? All weapons need to be secured and unloaded"
Me - "No" and walk right in fully loaded. Easy!
Just don't start looking at holsters while you're there. The Orlando show ALWAYS has uniformed troopers/sheriffs at each door.
scottfrmga
Member
its a easy fix, don't go where your not welcome
sacp81170a
Member
Oh really? The guy I was just describing was also CCW'ing. I'm a safety risk, you're a safety risk, we're all safety risks at one point or another. Anyone who believes otherwise is an accident waiting to happen...
sacp81170a
Member
Conqueror beat me to it...
Because the purpose of the gun show is to look at and handle (with permission, of course) lots of pretty (and some not so pretty) guns. I touch more firearms at a gunshow that I haven't personally cleared in half an hour than I do in most months outside the gun show. No harm in being safe. If that's bigoted and insulting to you, then maybe you need to check your attitude.
I agree that that is a problem. I'm trying to get the promoter here to provide a portable clearing barrel for just that purpose. I have no problem holding someone's ammo for them while they're inside and have done so on several occasions.
Because the purpose of the gun show is to look at and handle (with permission, of course) lots of pretty (and some not so pretty) guns. I touch more firearms at a gunshow that I haven't personally cleared in half an hour than I do in most months outside the gun show. No harm in being safe. If that's bigoted and insulting to you, then maybe you need to check your attitude.
I agree that that is a problem. I'm trying to get the promoter here to provide a portable clearing barrel for just that purpose. I have no problem holding someone's ammo for them while they're inside and have done so on several occasions.
bogie
Member
Tell you what... You probably already think you're paying too much to get in the door, right?
Guess how much their insurance would go up if they DIDN'T require folks to lock & tie?
All it takes is ONE screw up. And between environutter antis who might stuff a cartridge in a table gun, and Bubba who is into his second week of po-leece academy, and thinks he knows everything, I just want everyone to stay really, really discreet.
Guess how much their insurance would go up if they DIDN'T require folks to lock & tie?
All it takes is ONE screw up. And between environutter antis who might stuff a cartridge in a table gun, and Bubba who is into his second week of po-leece academy, and thinks he knows everything, I just want everyone to stay really, really discreet.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
He was CCW'ing a Remington 700?
Wow, I wanna see his holster......
JerryM
Member
If one who is a CHL holder does not have the sense to keep his concealed gun concealed he should not have a license. If one wants to trade or check to see if something fits the CCW then go outside, unload and return.
Otherwise, leave the thing holstered and concealed.
If one cannot do that then take his license. If we cannot trust one another at a gun show, then I do not expect Wal-Mart or some restaurant where alcohol is served to trust us.
I would post a sign to the effect that CCW was allowed, but if that gun were removed from the holster you would have to leave, and would not be welcome at any gun show that I sponsored.
I find it strange that some who argue to unload at a gun show would argue that we are mature enough to be allowed to carry in bars.
Best,
Jerry
Otherwise, leave the thing holstered and concealed.
If one cannot do that then take his license. If we cannot trust one another at a gun show, then I do not expect Wal-Mart or some restaurant where alcohol is served to trust us.
I would post a sign to the effect that CCW was allowed, but if that gun were removed from the holster you would have to leave, and would not be welcome at any gun show that I sponsored.
I find it strange that some who argue to unload at a gun show would argue that we are mature enough to be allowed to carry in bars.
Best,
Jerry
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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- 13,146
Although it IS quite irritating to be disarmed at gun shows, of all places, note the following:
1. I just usually ignore the no-guns rule - and no one knows the difference with this wonderful invention known as the "Smart Carry" rig.
2. I can see the "why" of it. For most people it would not be a problem. But somewhere around 1 out of 10 CCW'ing yahoos are going to at some point feel the need to, and feel justified in doing this: "Oh yeah, is that so? Well you oughtta see MY carry gun - here it is" - whips it out loaded to show someone - NOT GOOD situation. In any OTHER place, he would not have felt comfortable in so doing, and thus would not have created this dangerous situation (a loaded gun in his hand). If all concealed guns stayed CONCEALED, then obviously it would not be a problem.
3. As a practical matter, a gun show is going to be a very very low-crime area, so I'm not overly irritated, since I'd be extremely unlikely to NEED the gun in there.
4. Finally, I will say that you did the right thing - go and put in car or at least unload in car. Even if the cop/security tells you to do so, it is NOT a wise idea to start unloading right then and there at the entrance - it would (understandably) freak some people out. This is just not good to be making live shells fly out of a gun's chamber while holding the gun and LOTS of people around, even if the 4 rules are observed.
1. I just usually ignore the no-guns rule - and no one knows the difference with this wonderful invention known as the "Smart Carry" rig.
2. I can see the "why" of it. For most people it would not be a problem. But somewhere around 1 out of 10 CCW'ing yahoos are going to at some point feel the need to, and feel justified in doing this: "Oh yeah, is that so? Well you oughtta see MY carry gun - here it is" - whips it out loaded to show someone - NOT GOOD situation. In any OTHER place, he would not have felt comfortable in so doing, and thus would not have created this dangerous situation (a loaded gun in his hand). If all concealed guns stayed CONCEALED, then obviously it would not be a problem.
3. As a practical matter, a gun show is going to be a very very low-crime area, so I'm not overly irritated, since I'd be extremely unlikely to NEED the gun in there.
4. Finally, I will say that you did the right thing - go and put in car or at least unload in car. Even if the cop/security tells you to do so, it is NOT a wise idea to start unloading right then and there at the entrance - it would (understandably) freak some people out. This is just not good to be making live shells fly out of a gun's chamber while holding the gun and LOTS of people around, even if the 4 rules are observed.
mgregg85
Member
Hmm, I do recall carrying to midland's gun show last year, didn't see any NO CCW signs.
I did do some shopping for holsters but I didn't remove my pistol from the holster, nor will I ever do so in public unless I actually need to use the gun.
No reason to show so many people what you are carrying and where it is on your body.
I did do some shopping for holsters but I didn't remove my pistol from the holster, nor will I ever do so in public unless I actually need to use the gun.
No reason to show so many people what you are carrying and where it is on your body.
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