Update: Border Patrol, 20 Years

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Those trigger happy agents deserve every minute of that 20 years, and then some. What they did is simply inexcusable. They shot a man after they knew he was unarmed. They did not know that he was trafficing marijuana until after the fact. Based on the facts of the case, Compean should have never tried swinging at the suspect, much less Compean and Ramos opening fire upon him.
 
Those trigger happy agents deserve every minute of that 20 years, and then some.
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My goodness no we would not want them doing their job, I suggest you work on the border for a short period and then perhaps you would draw a different conclusion, in no way should these guys do jail time, and on top of all this we are taking the word of a drug runner.:rolleyes:
 
and on top of all this we are taking the word of a drug runner
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No, we're taking the word of the officers themselves when they stated that the man allegedly shot was demonstrably not armed, and we're taking the word of the forensics lab that the bullet pulled from the man who was shot in fact came from one of the officers' guns.

That's pretty cut-n-dried, and evidently a jury of their peers thought so as well.
 
No, we're taking the word of the officers themselves when they stated that the man allegedly shot
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"Allegedly" shot? You mean it's possible that it was all a bad dream?

was demonstrably not armed, and we're taking the word of the forensics lab that the bullet pulled from the man who was shot in fact came from one of the officers' guns.
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Shooting at fleeing felons is often legal, but certainly there are a lot of complicated circumstances here. The bottom line: citizens should always be given the benefit of the doubt. International drug runners: no way.
 
Shooting at fleeing felons is often legal
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This is true, but like I said earlier, the drugs were found after the fact. So at the time of the shooting, he was not a suspected felon.

Also, to shoot a fleeing felon, the felon must be armed and an immediate threat to the public. The guy was unarmed, and running to Mexico.
 
This is a political prosecution from start to finish. Bush needs to placate his Mexican allies and ensure that the flow of illegals continues without fear of getting shot by border patrol.

We should be giving them a medal and opening up on all illegals. I guarantee the flow would stop quickly.
 
They had the prosecutor on O'Reilly and Bill asked him some tough questions.. the prosecutor answered them all. These guys messed up and tried to cover it up. If anyone here shot an illegal in the back and tried to cover it up, you'd be going to jail to. Claiming that the person had it coming because they were illegal would be a pretty poor defense.
 
So the illegal says. I don't buy anything that comes out of this administration's DOJ anymore. Moreover, since these people are part of an invading army we have a perfect right to kill all of them. It's the government's duty to stop them using all means necessary. Heck, we shoot to kill people crossing into IRAQ.
 
Do you deny we would have the right to mine the border with Mexico and issue shoot to kill orders? It's the basic right of any sovereign nation to defend its borders.
 
You dont have the right to murder anyone.. doesnt matter what their immigration status is.

Do you deny we would have the right to mine the border with Mexico and issue shoot to kill orders? It's the basic right of any sovereign nation to defend its borders.
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Mines? I think that's pretty extreme.

Shoot to kill orders? .. even more extreme. Who would man these towers? I doubt the average BP agent wants to gun down unarmed men, women, and children on a daily basis. Where are you gonna get people to work these towers? I dont think there are enough THR types to man them all.

It's not a viable plan. Im sure there's a better solution that doesnt entail wholesale murder.
 
If even a dozen illegals were shot for crossing, the flow would slow enormously. This is exactly why we won't be seeing any such orders, and why Justice will continue to put any agents using their firearms in prison. The nation has been bought and sold.
 
All they were "guilty" of was "covering up" after the shoot. Something which is routine, because if you report a shooting, you're inundated in paperwork and faced with politically-motivated prosecutions. They should have received a week off without pay, not 11 and 12 years in Federal prison for doing their jobs.

George Bush happily pardoned four drug dealers. Where are the pardons for Agents Campion and Ramos?
 
Yea.. and if we banned and confiscated all guns, we'd probably see a massive decrease in the amount of gun crime. The ends do not justify the means.

Illegal immigration is not a crime punishable by death. And even if it were, it wouldnt be up to LEOs, Federal Agents, or private citizens to carry out such punishment.
 
All they were "guilty" of was "covering up" after the shoot. Something which is routine, because if you report a shooting, you're inundated in paperwork and faced with politically-motivated prosecutions. They should have received a week off without pay, not 11 and 12 years in Federal prison for doing their jobs.

George Bush happily pardoned four drug dealers. Where are the pardons for Agents Campion and Ramos
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I agree.. the punishment seems extremely harsh.

If there's one thing I learned in the Marines, it's integrity. If you do something wrong and admit to it, you might get NJP (Article 15) and you continue on with your life.. You might lose some money and a paygrade, but you might still get a decent discharge and your benefits.

Now if you do something wrong, and lie about it and then try to cover it up.. Well then you're going to get court-martial'd.. and then they're gonna throw the book at you.. Dishonorable Discharge, Brig Time, the whole 9-yards.

Im guessing that's what happened here.
 
the insane jail time stems from the weapons charges and some mandatory minimum federal nonsense
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Ahh.. that would explain it.

It's interesting that everyone is always ranting about how LEOs are above the law.. Well, this time they got what the punishment that apparently goes with the crime and people want them pardoned.

Is it OK for LEOs to be above the law as long as they're shooting someone you dont like?
 
How Sad and Hypocritical

If these agents had been soldiers stationed along the Iraq/Syria border and they shot one guy in the butt, it wouldn't make the news. But oh Lord, in the U.S. Crucify them! I support the agents, they got a raw deal. These guys were protecting you and now they and their families are screwed. I hope you sleep better at night.
 
If these agents had been soldiers stationed along the Iraq/Syria border and they shot one guy in the butt, it wouldn't make the news. But oh Lord, in the U.S. Crucify them!
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Big difference: The US/Mexico border is not the Iraq/Syria border.

Regardless of what people on THR tell you, we are not at war with Mexico. I was just there a couple weeks ago. I was not taken as a POW. During my visit I noticed there were hundreds more Americans out and about. If we were at war, I doubt we'd be able to walk around freely, eat tacos, and drink coronas in enemy territory.

See this line?
http://community.iexplore.com/photos/journal_photos/Onlineatborder.jpg
These are mostly American tourists waiting to get back into the US. It extends back into Mexico about 2 miles.

So as you can clearly see, the situation on the The US/Mexico border is not the same as the situation Iraq/Syria border.
 
correct me if i'm wrong

but i believe the judge even commented that the sentence guidelines were disturbing. this is a situation where a commutation after 6 months to a year would be good. i'd favor less than that but the sad reallity is that they need to let things quiet down before they do anything.
if i was king they would be looking for a different line of work and get probation but heck i'm just a leo apologist
 
Shooting at a fleeing felon legal...

Not the case... Use of force policy for federal agencies state deadly force is justified If you are confronted with similar threat meaning the following:

1. Someone has a deadly weapon knife, gun, 3000lbs car.
2. Has the intent , IE (I'm going to kill you *******,or car running towards you or someone else after you told him to stop and you have no where to run, shots fired at you or your partner or 3rd party ext..

There's no agency out there that authorizes shooting a fleeing felon if he no longer is a threat. Do so and you will be in the same cell with these guys.

I understand the Job most immigration officers do is not easy. But if all was as described they had no right to shoot this guy even if he had 3 truck loads of any drug unless he did any of the above.
 
This is true, but like I said earlier, the drugs were found after the fact. So at the time of the shooting, he was not a suspected felon.
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Regardless of when the drugs were found, the perp failed to stop for the border guards, and in fact, ran from them. Sounds like rather suspicious behavior to me.

On February 17, 2005, Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean were on duty along the U.S./Mexico border, working out of the Fabens Border Patrol Station. At approximately one o’clock in the afternoon, Agent Compean observed a van near the border about two and a half miles west of Fabens. According to the testimony, the driver of the van, Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila, failed to yield to Agent Ramos’ attempt to stop him, jumped out of his vehicle and attempted to run back to Mexico.
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The DA seems to be rather neglectful of placing any blame on Aldrete-Davila's initial suspicious behavior that prompted the border guards to draw their weapons in the first place.

Ramos and Compean need to be pardoned. Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila belongs in prison instead of the border guards. Who could have known what Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila was up to or what information he might have been running away with about what he was attempting to deliver. There had to be more to this than what the obviously biased DA has let on. And why did he use official letterhead to espouse his views on the matter? Wouldn't that be a misuse of government property? Doesn't the DA's office have official channels and a whole department dedicated to press releases? Seems like someone is scrambling to cover something up or to save face.

Does anyone else find it strange that the trial of these two guys went so fast? From the alleged act to sentencing in less than a year and a half! The railroad tracks must still be red hot!

Woody


As the Court said in Boyd v. United States:

"It may be that it is the obnoxious thing in its mildest and least repulsive form; but illegitimate and unconstitutional practices get their first footing in that way, namely, by silent approaches and slight deviations from legal modes of procedure. This can only be obviated by adhering to the rule that constitutional provisions for the security of person and property should be liberally construed. A close and literal construction deprives them of half their efficacy, and leads to gradual depreciation of the right, as if it consisted more in sound than in substance. It is the duty of courts to be watchful for the constitutional rights of the [size=+2]citizen, [/size] and against any stealthy encroachments thereon."
 
Were the agents wrong for covering it up - yes
Do we know whether the illegal dope smuggler had a gun - no
Should we take the word of 2 BP agents over the word of an illegal criminal - most definately yes
 
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