US Airways pilot fired.
- Thread starter Drail
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ScottsGT
Member
Sounds like a good lawsuit against the hoster maker, the TSA, the airline, the gun mfgr, the lock mfgr, and anyone else on the airplane.
(This being the angle the lawyers will go)
(This being the angle the lawyers will go)
ScottsGT
Member
I'm sorry, but any holster/lock design that requires you to place anything but your booger picker within the trigger guard is a bad design. Especially while the gun is loaded. His focus is to fly the airplane. The whole procedure is a plan for falure.
Actaully, there are TWO guys flying the airplane. And during most of the flight a computer is flying the airplane. I don't believe the holster manufacturer ever intended for anyone to place a lock through the trigger of a LOADED weapon. Requiring the holster to be locked EVERY time the cockpit door opens also makes no sense to me. How many cops would go along with a policy requiring them to lock their gun into the holster every time they got out of their car? Do the Air Marshalls keep their guns locked up during the flight? I have place most of the blame for this one on the idiots in charge of the TSA.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
TAB, what do you know about this story that we don't?
xjchief
Member
It's just another example of pilots being held to a higher standard than police officers, doctors, ect. 
Aguila Blanca
Member
I could say I'll never fly US Airways again as a result of this, but I won't fly US Airways anyway so that would be a falsehood. Firing the guy is just plain wrong, but to be expected since it is unlikely that anyone in the upper echelons of US Airways management team or legal department knows enough about guns to realize that the idiotic TSA regulations virtually guarantee that this will happen. The surprise isn't that it happened, the surprise is that it has only happened once, and that it took this long before it happened.
I assume your "family member" was the co-pilot and was in the cockpit at the time the gun went off? If not, you know nothing more than any of the rest of us, i.e. the gun went off and made a hole in the aircraft. You can only take so many pictures of ONE hole.TAB said:
Armed&Bitter
Member
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"Dis is an H&K fotey. I'm da only one on dis flight deck profeshna enough to...!BANG!"
Destructo6
Member
Well, if it's a weapon that they are not taking with them, every time.
So, for a FFDO, that means any time that he leaves the cockpit.
Harve Curry
Member
If it was a air marshall or LEO would they have been fired??
rainbowbob
Member
A family member saw the hole in the fuselage - and that convinces you the pilot got what was coming to him?
The ND was caused by the TSA. The pilot made a mistake that was inevitible.
The pilots that have agreed to be part of the Flight Deck Officer (FFO) program should all quit in protest until that friggin holster-lock set-up is abandoned and they are able to CCW 24/7 on and off the plane, in and out of the cockpit.
no, the pics I've seen convinced me that it was not an AD cuased by a bad holseter, but a ND cuased by some one that can not be trusted to handle a fire arm safely. If they can't do that, then they should not be flying a plane... not to mention the fact that his actions cuased his employer $$$$$$. As a bizz owner with a few employess, if any of them ever were to do something stupid and damage, my properity and/ or put others at risk. They will no longer be my employee. How hard is that to figure out?
I feel sorry for the pilot, but do believe he was negligent in handling that pistol. Pilots know that this is a stupid holster design, but they also know to be careful when handling it and/or keep the chamber empty. No other pilot has had and ND int he aircraft, so its not impossible to work around this holster.
sourdough44
Member
I think stuff went on beyond that has been released to the public. From the pictures you can surmise that the lock goes behind the trigger AFTER the gun is snapped in the holster. I have no comment on the holster or lock procedure. Let's just say, 'be careful out there'.
I'm sure we would all like to see said pics.
I've seen the holster design, and it's bad with AD written all over it, and just waiting to go off. Many others have seen it and commented on it's poor design well before the AD occurred. I've seen footage of said holster design explaining exactly how an AD can happen, and I think it was filmed before the AD did happen. It's on YouTube, if you haven't seen it go look for it. I've even fiddled with one of my own holsters and replicated the holster design and footage. I'm sure many others have done the same thing.
In other words I've seen actual evidence of one side, AD with poor TSA holster design.
Unless you got something besides a relative saw it and you've seen pictures that prove it was an ND then I'm still sticking with the faulty TSA holster design.
Think really the only thing that would prove ND is cockpit voice or video of someone playing with the weapon...or a picture of a drunk pilot being carried off the plane.
I've seen the holster design, and it's bad with AD written all over it, and just waiting to go off. Many others have seen it and commented on it's poor design well before the AD occurred. I've seen footage of said holster design explaining exactly how an AD can happen, and I think it was filmed before the AD did happen. It's on YouTube, if you haven't seen it go look for it. I've even fiddled with one of my own holsters and replicated the holster design and footage. I'm sure many others have done the same thing.
In other words I've seen actual evidence of one side, AD with poor TSA holster design.
Unless you got something besides a relative saw it and you've seen pictures that prove it was an ND then I'm still sticking with the faulty TSA holster design.
Think really the only thing that would prove ND is cockpit voice or video of someone playing with the weapon...or a picture of a drunk pilot being carried off the plane.
rainbowbob
Member
Please elaborate...you definately seem to know something the investigators and the rest of us don't know about. What did the pics show you that is not apparent to us?
On the other hand, perhaps you haven't seen a demonstration of how the how the lock goes through a small hole in the holster and threads through the trigger guard (in front of the trigger if you don't have it seated). You can't see what you are doing, and if you discover the gun is not completely seated and - oops! - push it further into the holster...BANG!
The whole set up is designed to make the gun less accessable to the pilot (who after all, can't be trusted to maintain retention of his firearm in a bad situation). And it forces him to repeatedly futz with a dangerous trigger lock on a loaded weapon for no good reason.
Does anybody here use a trigger lock on their loaded firearms?...I didn't think so.
I repeat: The FDOs should quit the program in protest until they are allowed to CCW in and out of the cockpit.
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Henry Bowman
Senior Member
Then you have much more information than has been made public -- and I suspect your family member probably did something improper by showing your those pics.
Yet we do not trust them to go to the bathroom without locking up their firearm and we don't trust them to walk through the terminal with the gun worn in a holster. Methinks, the TSA, and everyone else involved in this tragic-comedy situation, needs to take a heavy dose of reality.
An aircraft cockpit is one of the most private offices in the whole World. It is necessary to equip aircraft with many thousands of dollars worth of flight recorders and cockpit voice recorders to establish what happened there in the event of an accident. Yet posters can decide what happened on the flight deck, and determine the correct punishment for the pilot, by looking at a photograph or by some sort of intuition. I am most impressed.
berettashotgun
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Someone PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK - I need some reference to even start to listen to this speculation being stated as fact.
If you wasn't there, you don't know Jack Schitt. Lotta Schitt patronizes Jack Schitt everyday.
A hole in an Airplane is bad -VERY,VERY BAD.
Most folks don't realize the skin is ALL that is protecting you against the elements @ 550 and 35K.
So, any of you fellars care to guess how thick the skin is most places on a Boeing 7** ?????????
Try bout 0.063", work on them everyday, had a co-worker get mad and toss a drill; drill bit stuck thru the skin. Good Times.
Now the Pilot dropping the hammer and - what happened - popping a hole in the plane means nothing. Something isn't being included in this story.
If you wasn't there, you don't know Jack Schitt. Lotta Schitt patronizes Jack Schitt everyday.
A hole in an Airplane is bad -VERY,VERY BAD.
Most folks don't realize the skin is ALL that is protecting you against the elements @ 550 and 35K.
So, any of you fellars care to guess how thick the skin is most places on a Boeing 7** ?????????
Try bout 0.063", work on them everyday, had a co-worker get mad and toss a drill; drill bit stuck thru the skin. Good Times.
Now the Pilot dropping the hammer and - what happened - popping a hole in the plane means nothing. Something isn't being included in this story.
I totally agree, I think the pilots should be able to carry with having to have the gun lock. I was just pointing out that the consequences of a problem are greater than for an MD or LEO. If pilots are going to carry on planes, they should be trained in weapon retention, but having a lock through the holster and trigger guard is stupid.
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