US Senate and .50 Cal

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Entry 39 - Congressional Record, Jan 26, 2005

Levin, Carl - (D - MI) Class II
269 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-6221
Web Form: levin.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm


COMMON SENSE REGULATION OF FIFTY CALIBER SNIPER RIFLES -- (Senate - January 26, 2005)

---
Mr. LEVIN. Mr. President, the CBS news program ``60 Minutes'' recently aired a segment regarding the dangers that .50 caliber sniper rifles pose to the security of our Nation. In previous Congresses, I have cosponsored legislation to enact common sense regulation of these dangerous weapons. Unfortunately, the Congress has thus far failed to act. I am hopeful that the 109th Congress will address this issue for the safety of all Americans.

The .50 caliber sniper rifle is a favorite weapon of militaries around the world and is also among the most powerful weapons legally available to private individuals in the United States. According to a report released by the Violence Policy Center last year, a .50 caliber sniper rifle is capable of accurately hitting a target over 1,500 yards away, and the ammunition available for the rifle includes armor-piercing, incendiary, and explosive bullets. The report also cites the U.S. Army's manual on urban combat, which states that .50 caliber sniper rifles are designed to attack bulk fuel tanks and other high-value targets from a distance using ``their ability to break through all but the thickest shielding material.''

The previously mentioned ``60 Minutes'' program highlighted various threats that military style .50 caliber sniper rifles pose to civilians. One serious threat reported on the program is the vulnerability of commercial aircraft to terrorists with .50 caliber sniper rifles. This threat was previously addressed in a 1999 report by the minority staff of the House Government Reform Committee, which noted that the thumb-sized bullets fired by .50 caliber rifles can easily punch through aircraft fuselages, fuel tanks, and engines. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly of New York City referred to these potential threats by saying, ``Clearly, with the range that it has, and the impact capability that it has, it would put an airliner or an airplane at risk if it hit that plane.''

So the easy availability of the .50 caliber sniper rifle poses a danger to airline safety, as well as our overall security. Last September, California became the first and so far only State in the country to ban the manufacture, sale, distribution, or importation of .50 caliber sniper rifles. Unfortunately, there are few Federal regulations to protect the rest of the Nation from these dangerous weapons. Buyers need only be 18 years old, rather than the 21 years of age required for handgun purchases. And there is no minimum age requirement for possession of a .50 caliber weapon and no regulation on second hand sales.

In an interview which became part of the ``60 minutes'' report, the inventor and current manufacturer of the .50 caliber sniper rifle, Ronnie Barrett, described his product as ``a high-end adult recreational toy.'' When asked how he came up with the idea for the rifle, Mr. Barrett replied, ``I was just a 26 year-old kid, and didn't know any better.''

Mr. President, we should know better. The time has come to classify these weapons in the same common sense manner that we classify other weapons of war, including machine guns. The 109th Congress should follow California's good example and pass reasonable legislation that changes the way .50 caliber guns are regulated.
 
Mr. President, the Al Queda training manuals show the use of private automobiles loaded with explosives to be a very effective means of causing damage. These automobiles are easily accessible in this country and we demand you put a stop to the dangerous practice of selling automobiles to any civilian with enough money to purchase one. Do it for the children.
 
You do realize that a Jeep Cherokee killed more people domestically this week then a .50 caliber rifle has killed in oh forever!!!. Has a .50 ever been used domestically in a murder?

Chris
 
I can't find where a manufactured for civilian use .50 has been used in ANY kind of crime, ANYWHERE....

If someone has an example I'd love to see it.

It's a pointless argument however, the number of registered full auto weapons used in crimes is extremely low as well. The only one I can remember involved an LEO shooting his Chief with a sub gun of some sort, that was privately owned by the officer.

We can't have any of those dangerous full autos either, but this guy:

Train Killer

takes out a whole train and no one is calling for the ban of
SUVs. Imagine if he had used a gun in any part of this horrible crime.

I'm gonna go be sick now....
 
ARG! Carl Lenin is one of my senators. I'm sorry.

You would think the guy would have something better to do then waste his time on this. BOY this makes me angry.
 
The whole basis of this wacko's argument against 50 cal is a 60 Minutes show? Yeah. Those unimpeachable bastions of truth and integrity. :banghead:
Everyone here should cut/paste armoredman's reply into an email and send it to the White House. GW should get a chuckle out of that.

Oh, BTW, a gun was mentioned in the AP story on the train wreck. Had nothing to do with what happened, but they just had to put that word in there somewhere.
 
I can't find where a manufactured for civilian use .50 has been used in ANY kind of crime, ANYWHERE....
If someone has an example I'd love to see it.

Northern Ireland, 1992-1997. Barretts purchased legally in the US and then smuggled into Northern Ireland were used to kill British soldiers. Best list I could find reads:
1992
28 August: A member of the Light Infantry was fatally wounded with a .50 calibre rifle in the Square, Crossmaglen.
1993
17 July: A member of the Duke of Edinburg's Royal Regiment was fatally wounded with a .50 calibre rifle on the Carran Rd, Crossmaglen.
2 November: A member of the RUC shot to death with a .50 calibre rifle in Crossmaglen.
2 December: A member of the Royal Artillery was fatally wounded with a .50 calibre rifle in Victoria St, Keady.
30 December: A member of the Grenidier Guards was fatally wounded with a .50 calibre rifle outside Murtagh's Bar, Crossmaglen.
1997
12 February: Lance Bombadier Stephen Restorick of the Royal Horse Artillery was fatally wounded with a .50 calibre Barret 90 rifle on the Green Rd, Bessbrook. At this time, he is the last member of the British Army to have been killed in Ireland by the IRA.
 
That can't have happened, it's illegal to own guns in the UK :)

Thanks for that. I figured something had happened somewhere, I just couldn't find a reference.
 
The leftys have their panties in a wad because they heard somewhere that a .50 can penetrate a limousine at a mile. They're afraid and worried, that's all.
 
Sparks, out of curiosity, have you any info as to the distances involved? Were they all out around 1,000 meters or more?

I'm generally underwhelmed by events within 500 yards, since with my '06 I figure anything from there on in belongs to me.

Art
 
I'm generally underwhelmed by events within 500 yards, since with my '06 I figure anything from there on in belongs to me.

I agree, my .308 will take care of any "reactive targets" out to 500 yards with no problems. With that said, I would like a .50 for those "way out there" targets of opportunity. :D
 
I'm generally underwhelmed by events within 500 yards, since with my '06 I figure anything from there on in belongs to me.
You'll have to forgive me, but all I used to see with those incidents was some poor 19-year-old kid with a five-inch hole in his back because someone ordered him to stand guard at a traffic stop somewhere far from his home. I wasn't ever able to summon up any real abstract admiration for the shooting skills of the miserable ???? who pulled the trigger.
 
that poor li'l 19yr old.....

was there of his OWN free will, NObody held a gun to his head to fill out the application....
but ONLY the military in uk is "killed" or "succumbs" to death. why, all others were"a victim of a military misadventure". even when the doctors kill you in a hospital, you are the "victim of a medical misadventure". that means you don't count, an' they don't have to count you as a victim of their legislation that doesn't work in the real world....and we don't like to admit it.... :rolleyes:
 
For some reason, when the Boose-Butts-&-Bang Cops pulled off that smooth piece of action on that cult in Waco, There was early on mention of the .50 BMG. That was the 1st and last mention of it.
I remember, because the perimiter was moved back, but by no means far enough back.

_________________________________________________________________

Wigg? I think I might be a Wigg :eek:
 
Sparks, the point is that many hunting rifles are more than sufficient for reliable accuracy on people, out to well over 500 yards. Unless your data involves shootings at over 1,000 yards, the issue of the use a .50BMG is not really relevant. That's why I was wondering as to what distances might have been involved.

A problem with all the political emoting is the implication that the trajectory is flat as a stretched string, and that the time of flight is instantaneous. The public at large does not know that out at distances such as a mile, the trajectory is similar to that of a basketball and a mis-estimation of some fifty yards means a miss. Even a small miscalculation of wind means a miss. The flight time is around two seconds, so a human target must cooperate by being motionless.

Art
 
Unless your data involves shootings at over 1,000 yards, the issue of the use a .50BMG is not really relevant.
Well, firstly, I was asking a direct question - has a civilian-made .50 ever been used in a crime. Answer: yes, several times in Northern Ireland.
Secondly, the reason the .50s were used was twofold; penetrating body armour (though that's the secondary reason), and the biggie: psychological considerations. The idea that someone is out there with a .50 that can reach out from a mile away and take off your head is a scary one, played on by the ????s who were doing the shooting by putting up fake roadsigns that read "Warning - sniper at work" in areas patrolled by the British Army and the RUC.
 
SPARKS said
...some poor 19-year-old kid with a five-inch hole in his back because someone ordered him to stand guard ... somewhere far from his home.
I believe the Redcoats made in same complaint in New England in 1774.
 
Has anyone yet thought to point out to Senator Levin that Ronnie Barrett made the point (I understand - I didn't see the show) that his company couldn't stay in business without civilian sales? In effect then, if this law would pass then the military would see their prices skyrocket, or else their supply would dry up.
 
I believe the Redcoats made in same complaint in New England in 1774.
You know US history better than I do, but somehow I doubt that the Redcoats were requested by the Americans to help secure the peace from terrorist attacks...
 
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