• You are using the old Black Responsive theme. We have installed a new dark theme for you, called UI.X. This will work better with the new upgrade of our software. You can select it at the bottom of any page.

USFA Remington Revolver

Status
Not open for further replies.

Timthinker

Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
815
I have read reports that the United States Fire Arms Company plans to reproduce a Remington 1858 muzzleloading revolver in the future. The details on this project have been sketchy, so I hope some of our seasoned BP veterans might have some information about this model. Specifically, I wonder if this gun will include an adjustable sights option. Also, I would like to know the expected cost of the basic model. Thanks.


Timthinker
 
Hmmm ... I thought that Remington had licensed its name to USFA for production of the model 1875 single action, which uses cartridges. I hadn't heard about the '58.

In any case, U.S.F.A. makes very high quality firearms here in the U.S., but you pay a price for that quality and "made in the USA" label. Whereas Uberti makes replica single actions in Italy and sells them (through distributors) in the U.S. for $300-500 apiece, comparable models from U.S.F.A. start around $700 and climb to well over $1,000 in price. Based on that model, I would expect a USFA '58 Remington to sell for no less than $500, and a USFA '75 Remington to sell for no less than $1000.

FYI, another company has been making '75 Remingtons in the U.S., and they are extremely high quality. That company is Hartford Manufacturing. Their current product line has a list price of $1495, but the waiting list is very, very long. They are distributed by Taylor's. I would imagine that with that market price set, a USFA-built 1875 with the "Remington" name on it (under license) would have an initial list price of AT LEAST $1,495, and probably more. In time, if supply brings prices down, then USFA might actually start selling them for closer to $1,000, but I doubt they'd ever go much below that.
 
According to my source, USFA plans to build both the 1858 and 1875 Remingtons. Unfortunately, I have no information about adjustable sights on either model. I fear Father Knows Best is correct about his estimated price on these models, since some USFA guns are quite expensive. I wonder how their 1858 model will compare to the Ruger Old Army.


Timthinker
 
I spoke with a sales person (maybe an owner) at USFA yesterday (07/30) about the availability of the 1858 Remington.

He advised that the 1858 and the 1875 were both 2008 guns and that engineering was about 60-70% completed.

They are not taking names for a wait list yet, they do not know anything about pricing, distribution, etc. None of this is final as they won't know until they complete the engineering aspects of the work.

I don't think adjustable sights will be available initially.

If they can keep the price at around $800 - $1000 I think they will sell many 1858's.

I also informed him we were patiently waiting for an 1851 Colt copy and a pre-WW2 Smith and Wesson N frame, but he said they were a small company and pretty overwhelmed as it is. I hope they continue to succeed.

Mark
 
My understanding is that USFA will manufacture AND sell them, but they will bear the "E. Remington & Sons" mark on the barrel just like the originals. That's possible because USFA licensed the right to use the Remington name. Presumably, that means that Remington Arms Company will get a royalty of some sort on the sale of these guns.

I could be wrong, though. I've searched but can't find any press releases or other "official" announcements.
 
I was also advised that it is not settled who will sell these (Remington, USFA, other companies, etc.), how they will be sold (direct to consumer as a non-gun or only via FFL), etc.

M
 
J.T. Gerrity said:
Already done, and by Colt, no less. Get yourself a 2nd or 3rd generation Navy and you're guaranteed the best there is!
Um, weren't those guns actually produced in Italy and just marked "Colt" under license? If so, that hardly qualifies them as "the best there is." USFA makes a MUCH higher quality product than the Italians ever have.
 
>Um, weren't those guns actually produced in Italy and just marked "Colt" under license? <

In a word: No. It is very complicated and has been covered quite well here, so do a search. They are very high quality, maybe better than the originals, and they are considered real Colts.
 
Bad Flynch said:
they are considered real Colts.
I didn't say anything about what they are "considered." I am pretty sure that they were at least assembled from Italian parts. Is that or is that not correct?

And regardless of the answer to that question, I stand by my assertion that USFA will make a better product. USFA's quality is markedly superior to Colt's.
 
Actually, Father, you said:
USFA makes a MUCH higher quality product than the Italians ever have.

Bad Flynch did not disagree with that. He simply corrected your error:
Um, weren't those guns actually produced in Italy and just marked "Colt" under license?

Bad Flynch is correct, your assertion how Colt's guns were made was incorrect. There has been a great deal of discussion here about Colt's Second and Third Generation guns, how they were made, by whom and using what processes and parts. A little effort would produce that discussion. I think you need to at least read it before challenging his post.

Bad Flynch also made no comparison between those new Colts and USFA; his statement about quality was with regard to the original Colt guns.

Regarding your "stand" about the expected quality of USFA's products: nobody at any time in this thread, or any other thread on this forum that I'm aware of, made any comments denigrating USFA's quality. I'm quite sure myself that it will be as their previous efforts, top notch. And priced to match. I believe you are absolutely correct in that statement.
 
FNB,
You've obviously never seen or handled a second or third generation Colt, or you'd never have made such a statement. Colt states with no reservations that these are authentic Colt revolvers, and so they are. Extremely high quality; they are a major improvement over the originals in every way except for the fact that they do not have progressive rifling. Now, if USFA came out with a Colt Navy that was superior to any 2nd or 3rd generation Colt AND included progressive rifling, that would be the gun to buy!
 
No Colt Was Ever Made In Italy

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/cap_ball/

Second generation Colts used rough castings from Italy for barrels, backstraps, and cylinders. Third generation guns were made entirely of castings and other parts from Italy.

C Series 2nd Gen guns were manufactured in Hartford. F Series at the Iver Johnson factory in NJ. 3rd Gen. guns were also made at Iver Johnson factory.

Read the article. It's informative. Good pictures too. Lou Imperatto was the driving force behind Colt Blackpowder.
 
About the Colt 2nd & 3rd Gen. guns, this from the Blue Book of Gun Values (BP Edition) Get a copy of this, or an on-line subscription, as they are well worth the money.

Current firearms manufacturer with headquarters located in West Hartford, CT.
Colt's Manufacturing Company, Inc. is the previous manufacturer of 2nd Generation Colt percussion revolvers located in Hartford, CT. Colt used subcontractors to supply rough castings for the manufacture of these black powder pistols. Throughout the production years 1971-1982, these rough castings were produced in Italy and the reproductions were completed in the United States. Initially, Val Forgett and Navy Arms provided these parts/components during 1971-73. Lou Imperato supplied these parts from 1974-76. In both instances, these revolvers were assembled and finished in Colt's facilities in Connecticut. Finally, from 1978-1982, Colt subcontracted both parts procurement and final production to Lou Imperato and Iver Johnson Arms in Middlesex, NJ. Colt percussion revolvers produced by Iver Johnson had frames, center pins, nipples, and screws manufactured in the United States. In all instances, these revolvers were manufactured in accordance with Colt's strict specifications and quality control. Additionally, Colt's performed final inspection for all models. All percussion models manufactured from 1971 through 1982, either by Colt or its subcontractor, are regarded as authentic Colt pistols and not Italian replicas.
The Colt Custom Shop also produced a limited number of special editions through the early 1990s from 2nd Generation production inventory. (Colt 2nd Generation models in the white are still known to exist.)

Previous manufacturer and retailer of 3rd Generation Colt Black Powder pistols and muskets located in Brooklyn, NY 1994-2002.
All 3rd Generation Colt blackpowder models are also referred to as Signature Series Models.
A reprise of the original Colt Blackpowder line, along with historic models not offered in the 2nd Generation, and a new series of Commemoratives, each model (with the exception of the Heirloom Tiffany 1860 Army and 1842 Texas Paterson) bears the Sam Colt signature on the backstrap. These 3rd Generation models were manufactured under an authorized licensing agreement with Colt Firearms by Colt Blackpowder Arms Company – the same company (and many of the same craftsmen) responsible for the 2nd Generation Colt revolvers. Although parts for the Signature Series were cast in Italy, they were fully assembled and hand finished in the United States using the proprietary Colt formulas for bluing and color case hardening.
Colt Blackpowder Arms Company Signature Series revolvers are regarded as authentic Colt pistols. The 3rd Generation models have original Colt markings, including the barrel address and serial number stampings. There are no foreign proof marks on these authentic Colt models.
Please refer to Colt Blackpowder Reproductions & Replicas – A Collector's & Shooter's Guidefor color pictures of the 3rd Generation Colt Blackpowder makes and models listed below. Third Generation Colts can be found on pages 23 through 37, and pages 77, 84, 85, 86, and 94.

Hope that helps.
 
Well, I guess people can differ about the Italian origin of key parts of the 2nd and 3rd gen Colt black powder firearms render them somewhat less desirable. I'm glad to hear that they are considered to be of very high quality.

And please don't think I'm a Colt basher, because I'm not. I'm the proud owner of these fine Colts:
Pictures20061210guns005.jpg

And this one, which I carry daily to protect myself and my family:
DSC00115.jpg

I have owned USFA's in the past, but don't at present. I also own several Ubertis, which are serviceable but rough, so I have some unpleasant experience with Italian quality control in the firearms arena.

In my view, the best of all worlds would be USFA manufacturing Colt black powder arms under contract for Colt. USFA would build them to exceedingly high quality standards in the very factory Colonel Colt used to build them 150 years ago.
 
Oops -- almost forgot. I also have two Colt Peacemaker 22's and a New Frontier 22 in the safe. I don't have pics of those, though.

All of my Colts are fine quality firearms, and I'm proud to own and shoot them.
 
Father,

I didn't see any of the Second or Third Generation Colt c&b revolvers in your arsenal; you did mention having owned some Ubertis. It would appear that you have no personal, hands-on experience with the Second and Third Generation Colt guns, and that your presumptions regarding their quality are based on your experience with the Ubertis. Am I correct in making that statement?

I own and have loaded, fired, cleaned and assemble/disassembled three Ubertis and a Third Generation Colt Dragoon. I've personally handled and fired a Second Generation Colt Dragoon, as well as two different USFA guns (a Cowboy and a Gunslinger, both in 45 Colt).

With the caveat that my experience base with these fine guns is at best limited (but at least I have some), I will say that the USFA guns are superb guns, excellent in every respect; the Second and Third Generation Colt guns are very nearly (but not completely) their equal; and the Ubertis, while fine guns in their own right, lack some of the finer finish of those first two brands.

However, with due regard to those comments, until I win the lottery I will continue to buy Ubertis when I want to purchase a new gun. I find they meet my needs very well. I hope that some day you have, and take advantage of, the opportunity to purchase or use one of the Colt Second Generation c&b guns. I believe you will be very satisfied with it.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top