Hey all I have a question for .300 BLK shooters. I found a couple of loaded 300 blk rounds at a range heavily frequented by various military groups of all branches. I know 300blk is easy to make and done by many but I found some that had the primers staked in like USGI ammo sometimes does. My question is are there any companies that produce the 300blk round with staked in primers or is some military branch experimenting with this caliber? Attached is a pic of the round in question. Thanks.
USGI .300 BLK Cartridge???
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The brass may have been formed from unfired pulled 5.56 ammo. What is the headstamp?
Sunray
Member
No such thing as .300 BLK NATO. There is converted LC brass being commercially sold though.
bangswitch
Member
As I use lots and lots of cut and resized Lake City brass for my 300BLK, I can tell you that LC doesn't crimp the primer like that. Whoever reloaded that from reformed LC 5.56 brass must have crimped it themselves (Why??). I get about 95% of all my brass as once-fired Lake City (LC) in both 7.62x51 and 300BLK (5.56) and in > 4000 cases have never seen a crimp like that. I buy my 7.62x51 brass unprocessed, which means it still has the original crimped primer still in place.
MachIVshooter
Member
I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. LC uses a circumferential crimp.
Looks like that primer pocket has been swaged and heavily radiused. My guess is that ridiculous crimp was actually required to hold the primer into the oversized pocket.
I'm not mistaken. Most LC brass does have a circle crimp. I have reloaded thousands of rounds and had to swage the crimp from the primer pocket. In those thousands of rounds I have seen a several that have those same staked in primers. I have even asked some armorers at my job and they told me that some mil brass has staked in primers versus the circular crimps.
Looks like someone took a flat blade screwdriver and a mallet to make that crimp...looks like one slip and you set off the primer...
apparently some people get factory ammo this way though
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/...quot_stakedandamp_quot__primer_on_XM193F.html
apparently some people get factory ammo this way though
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/...quot_stakedandamp_quot__primer_on_XM193F.html
Thanks for posting that link. I knew some LC brass was staked and not crimped.
carbine85
Member
I just gave away some LC with that crimp. It's a pain to work with and I picked it up from the range. The guys shooting it left 300 or so rounds laying there.
MachIVshooter
Member
Well, I stand corrected. I've been through tens of thousands of LC 5.56 and 7.62 cases, never seen anything other than circumferential crimps. Also Googled images of LC before i made that statement and found the same, so I was confident, but evidently I'm the one who is mistaken.
Lots do. IIRC, Radway Green 5.56 has a 3 point crimp, as does that South African 7.62x51 I so miss buying at $0.15/rd.
Lots do. IIRC, Radway Green 5.56 has a 3 point crimp, as does that South African 7.62x51 I so miss buying at $0.15/rd.
Really? The 556 brass that I have found that had staked in primers was very easy to work with. It was no different than swaging a crimp. Just get enough room for the primer to enter and your good to go. Also I am using a Dillon 600 so decrimping is easy.
bangswitch
Member
Same here, except I haven't been through quite that much brass. Nothing I've ever bought (all Lake City) from several different brass sellers ever had that crimp.
ApacheCoTodd
member
I agree, I get the sense that the four crimps are comping for a seriously hogged out pocket in removing the previously crimped and displaced material.
There is no way to know from the case. It is possible that someone took a 5.56mm round, pulled the bullet, trimmed and resized it with the original primer intact, and then loaded it for 300 BLK.
That being said, Federal makes 300 BLK brass and ammunition, so that could be a 300 BLK military product. I would look through the trash for the box that it came in. It would be an awesome box to have.
But there is no NATO 300 BLK, and that has a NATO stamp, so it was originally 5.56mm and converted somehow.
That being said, Federal makes 300 BLK brass and ammunition, so that could be a 300 BLK military product. I would look through the trash for the box that it came in. It would be an awesome box to have.
But there is no NATO 300 BLK, and that has a NATO stamp, so it was originally 5.56mm and converted somehow.
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OK thanks for the replies. I know 300 blk brass is easily converted from 556 brass. I did not think it was possible for a reloader to crimp or stake their primers themselves. When I saw this 300blk cartridge with the staked in primer I thought this had to be a factory round but what company uses NATO brass or is there some military/secret squirrel branch experimenting with it.
HoosierQ
Member
I just got a bunch of the black and white box, American Eagle AR556 ammo that had a crimp a lot like that except that it was just on one side, not all four. Shot great. I gave the brass to some fellas that asked nice to have it and since I don't reload I happily let them pick it all up. They remarked about the crimp and asked to see the box.
They wouldn't be practicing on a range open to the public, and they would be required to turn in the brass to account that they did shoot it, not sell it. That's a mandatory requirement in the military. Secret squirrels don't get a pass on ammo regulations.
Had the brass then been found in a lot of empty casings purchased surplus as brass scrap from DRMO, it would be significant. It frequently sells in the dumpster load.
More likely it's a reload of Lake City. Speculative rumor mongering about new cartridges from the Army comes up now and again. The last new cartridge to achieve military acceptance was actually invented by SF and the AMU, but it's being used overseas. If that didn't pass the political gauntlet of consideration, .300 WHISPER certainly is lagging, as it's been around since the '80s.
Let's not forget that the Army is forging ahead with it's testing of the LSAT, which does a lot more - like completely eliminate the overhead of collecting scrap brass and selling it off.
Search is your friend, there are other threads elsewhere on the staking:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/368682-lake-city-5-56-new-crimp-style.html
A three year old thread: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=556720
and here: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=365832
and here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/575347_XM193__staked_in_primers_.html
and here: http://beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=390236
here: http://www.arizonashooting.com/v3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=147453
It's apparently been out since at least 2011 according to the headstamps and is available in once fired military 5.56 brass, along with sales direct by ATK, the civilian side of LC. The plant administrators at Lake City have significantly improved the machinery and flowthru as a response to the surge in demand since 2002. So much so they were offering early retirement and even cut the working hours. Seems like this is evidence of the new machinery.
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