Vietnam Tunnel Pistol.

[Vern Humphrey]

Randy Ellis, "Tunnel Rat 6" is a friend of mine. He pushed for silenced Ruger MKIs -- one stumbling block was they had to develop a jacketed bullet, since the standard lead bullet loaded in .22 LR was deemed to be in violation of the Hague Convention.

The few times I went into tunnels, I had my Colt .357. The only time I had to use a weapon was when I came upon a cobra some wiseacre had tethered there with commo wire. The only reason I'm not stone deaf is I also had my Randall bowie knife, and by teasing it with my flashlight, I managed to get the upper hand.

 

[7six2]

The Aussie troops that went down the tunnels generally used the 9mm Browning.

 

[W.Va.Glassman]

My late cousin [agent orange victim] told me he used a Colt 38spl.when he was ordered to check out tunnels.

 

[Kestrel]

Forgive my ignorance, but I've always wondered why we went exploring in these tunnels? Why not napalm/gasoline/specialized incendiaries of some sort? Torch the tunnel and be done with it?

I'm assuming there was some other risk associated with such a measure or we were also looking for intelligence down there?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Forgive my ignorance, but I've always wondered why we went exploring in these tunnels?

Several reasons --

To gain intelligence (we found lots of documents in tunnels),

To find weapons caches,

Because tunnel design got pretty sophisticated and was very resistant to nape and explosives

And because on at least one occasion when we naped a tunnel, we found out it was being used as a hospital.

 

[CWL]

Kestrel,

Some of these tunnels were designed like mini cities with electric power, storage rooms, kitchens, sleeping quarters, meeting rooms and even hostpitals. They were huge and could run on for miles. They were also dug into clay-like soil which was resistant to explosives & surface shock.

The tunnels were designed so well that they had various baffles, water barriers, airtight compartments and hidden doors that allowed them to resist discovery, explosives, gasoline, acetylene gas (fuel air explosive) and CS gas. The US Army discovered that it was necessary to go in after the VC/NVA because they were impossible to destroy from the surface. -After the war, it was discovered that the efforts of Tunnel rats never came close to discovering how extensive they actually were.

 

[texagun]

1911 Government Models in .45 ACP and S&W Model 15's in .38 Special.

 

[Seven High]

It must have taken a lot of courage to enter a tunnel with nothing more than a pistol and a crappy GI flashlight.

 

[Kestrel]

It must have taken a lot of courage to enter a tunnel with nothing more than a pistol and a crappy GI flashlight.

That's what I was thinking. Very high-risk.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

.444 Marlin?

While researching the cartridge a few years ago I read that one tunnel rat, I forget his name, used a lever-action .444 Marlin.

 

[Kestrel]

Thanks for the info on the tunnels. I had no idea they were that extensive and well constructed. Seems like it would have taken forever for them to build these and, good grief - with what kind of equipment?

What kind of dimensions were these like? I always thought the tunnels almost required crawling, but the descriptions are much bigger.

 

[Leadbutt]

The LRRP team I was attached to used the standard issue 1911A! and the S&W Victory model 38spl, A couple of gentleman{} That came with us from time to time where issued and carried High Standard MD's suppressed and Swedish K's that had been also suppressed.

Most of the Britt's and Aussies there used P-35's{High Powers}.

Tunnels where NASTY,SCARY,andFRIGHTENING

With snakes, mines,pugi's and what not you had to have your **** wired tight!!!

And being built like a rat terrier help allot to.

 

[Detritus]

While researching the cartridge a few years ago I read that one tunnel rat, I forget his name, used a lever-action .444 Marlin.

you're probably thinking of Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver, who last i heard was the only person documented to have carried a .444 on a combat mission. he was with MACV SOG and carried it b/c he beleived that the .444 might/would penetrate small bunkers

 

[Gordon]

"The LRRP team I was attached to used the standard issue 1911A! and the S&W Victory model 38spl, A couple of gentleman{} That came with us from time to time where issued and carried High Standard MD's suppressed and Swedish K's that had been also suppressed.

Most of the Britt's and Aussies there used P-35's{High Powers}."
Thats exactly what I saw from 1967 thru 1972 in I and II corps. I managed the 2nd time over to get a 'K' as I had a MACV pass. Ya got the ammo from the aussies over beers! I never went down in no stinking tunnels , but I went into beau coup stinking bunkers.

 

[otcconan]

1911. Check out the book "The Tunnels of Cu Chi," by Tom Mangold and John Penycate. Good read.

 

[Walter]

I was a grunt Marine with 3rd Bn 26th Marines in early 1969 when we
located a huge tunnel complex on the Batangan Peninsula. It turned
out to have a hospital, many living quarters, and a whole lot of arms
storage chambers. Iirc, we took about 70 prisoners out of the tunnels.
The Army sent a platoon of engineers from the Americal division, with
probably 20 tons of explosives to blow the tunnels after we cleared them.

I don't remember our unit having "designated" tunnel rats, it was done on pretty much
a volunteer basis. I went down 2 or 3 times, enough to realize just
how claustrophobic I am. That was enough for me. I remember a few guys
carrying .45s down into the tunnels, but a lot of guys went in with just a knife,
either a bayonet or a K-Bar, and a flashlight. That's all I ever took, because
I didn't have a pistol.

The engineers tried pumping CS gas down into the tunnels but I don't
think that worked out too well, because once the gas was dumped in,
it just sat there and you couldn't go back into the tunnel. A couple of Marines tried,
got overcome by the gas and almost died. That's when
they abandoned the CS gas idea. Not long after that they started blowing the tunnels
with huge blocks of C-4 and SHAPE charges.

Walter

 

[Kevin108]

http://images.google.com/images?q=vietnam+tunnel+rat

 

[MSR_Gal]

I remember seeing pictures of tunnel rats in Nam back in the late 60's and early 70's. I think it was an American Rifleman article. They were carrying .38 Spcl S&W's with silencers. IIRC the article stated that the silencers weren't too effective due to the revolver's cylinder/barrel gap, but that it made shooting them less deafening in the tunnels.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Even though the 1911 was the standard issue many carried a .38 Special revolver. Also, some brought along a short barrel 12 ga in case they stumbled upon a large tunnel complex which opened up to "rooms". They needed the extra firepower and the larger area would allow use of a shotgun without blowing out your own eardrums.

 

[sterling180]

I would think one would have to be a little "off" to do that job anyway...

Yes,but at least he managed it,without refusing an order.Unfortunately someone had to do it and I think that Forest did it,because he said 'yes to everything',was simple and was considered to be expendable or cannon-fodder.

Most of the Britt's and Aussies there used P-35's{High Powers}.

Standard issue pistols,which are still in service today,the latest incarnation of the HI-Power being -the BDA 9mm.
By the way,was it only Brits from the SAS who served in Vietnam,or were there others from the Royal Marines and SBS.Also some of them,Iv'e heard used 1911A1s in the 50s up to the 90s.I know that in the Iranian Embassy seige of 1980,in Shepard's Bush,West London-that a trooper used a 1911A1,in favor of a HI-Power 9mm.Interesting isn't it and also Iv'e heard that the SAS had officers from the LAPD Swat team,visited them in Sterling Lines,Herefordshire-to learn about their methods of CQB and hostage-rescue.Perhaps they shared info about the 1911A1 and about the knockdown power of the .45 ACP,round.