w231 powder?

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You get some funny things on the Internet.
Hodgdon got the distribution rights to Winchester powders. They did not buy the factory, which is now a General Dynamics subsidiary at St Marks, Florida.
Hodgdon doesn't have an "exact copy" of Win 231, they put the HP38 label on powder coming off the same production line as 231 at St Marks. It IS W231 and I have seen kegs labeled outside as HP38 with a 231 packing slip inside. There is still some lot to lot difference, my present can of HP38 takes about .2 grain less than my last little bit of 231 for the same velocity.
 
I saw some of the new packaged W231 in the gunshop last weekend. Its now in a round plastic can like the Hodgdon powders come in rather than the square plastic can that was marketed by Winchester.
 
The last I bought about 6 mos ago was a couple of one pound plastic jugs with handle as it had been for a while. Didn't even know anything had changed.
 
HP38 is Win231 eh?... didn't know that.

Now the fun part, to see just how much the local stores are gonna gouge for the Hodgdon... and hearing all sorts of GREAT explainations from the morons at the counter on why it should be so! ha ha.:evil:

Interesting to note my Speer manual lists both (for9mm)... with slight differences.

I love these forums.
 
yep...

HP-38 = W231
HS-6 = W540
HS-7 = W571
H110 = W296
Ramshot Silhouette = WAP

They play nice...like to share and such. :)

D
 
What?

I am trying to bring a bit of joy as well as pass on some somewhat decent info.


I guess I did sound a bit like Mr. Rogers. :p


D
 
The above references to Win231=HP38 are true.
I've seen the 110lb cannisters of HP38, and they have the St.Marks labels and Win231 lot#'s on them.

As with most sperical/ball powders, there is a slightly greater lot-to-lot variation than with the extruded powders.

I'm still trying to find a lot that equals the Win231 I bought back in 1997. I won SOOOOOO many matches with that 8lb keg. When it was gone, my 9mm and .38spl groups haven't been the same since. Although a recent batch almost equaled it.

Now trying to use up 38lbs of Bullseye I "inherited".
5yrs and probably 4 to go!!!
 
i use w231 for my 9mm and 38spl loads. Love that stuff. Clean burning, meters well. I am using 4.5gr with 124gr bullet for 9mm and 4.6gr with 125gr bullet for 38spl. Gives me about 1100fps out of my G17 and about 950fps out of my 6" 357 mag.
 
My 'universal' load is 5.0 grs of 231 or HP-38 under 125 JHP in .38, 115 FMJ in 9mm or 200 gr. lead SWC in .45.

If you worked at it, there would be a more efficient powder for each of the loads above, but no other powder would work as well for the three.

In my part of the country, there is a popular wisdom that there is NO lot to lot variation in 231. I have only been able to shoot up about 6 pounds of it from the same jug, so I can't comment first hand.
 
I've heard about the pictures of Hodgdon and Winchester powders coming from the same drum, but if you ask Hodgdon, or visit their website, the only two crossovers that they claim are truly identical are 540/HS-6 and 571/HS-7. This is a very good reason to own a manual that shows pressure data. If you have one, it will show differences in max load charges and pressures for 231/HP-38 and 296/H-110. Many believe that 760 is H414. The pressure ranges just don't back that up. Primex was the manufacturer for Hodgdon and Winchester powders and although some powders were very similar as far as the "source" powder, they were made to slightly different spec's for each powder company.

Someone mentioned that Ramshot Silhouette = WAP and that is the case. Winchester dropped WAP and Western Powder Co. obtained the rights to sell it as Ramshot Silhouette. All of this can be confirmed and should be, someone thinking that they can use HP-38 in place of 231 and trying to use 231 data could get into trouble.

Ramshot Zip is a very close powder in burn rate to 231, but is much cleaner. Ramshot's data is lackluster, but if you have a manual that gives data for Zip, it's worth a look!
 
Looking in Lee#2:
125gr XTP HP38 start: 4.3gr :: 826fps ::: MAX 4.9gr :: 934fps ::: 16300 CUP

Looking at WW's website:
125gr XTP W231 start: 4.3gr :: 826fps ::: MAX 4.9gr :: 934fps ::: 16300 CUP

A few others are also the same.

However, according to to my my Lee Pro Auto-Disk chart, the VMD for HP38 is 0.0926 and WW231 is 0.0931.

I would say that these two powders behave similarly, but are not the same powder. I would not trust that one can be substituted for the other in all cases.
 
Sure, but was that BEFORE Hodgsons bought out Winchester powder?
Since they were so close before hand, I doubt they are making two different, yet so similar powders (kinda like Duff, Duff extra, Duff light, etc.).
 
Check a Lyman manual. SPEER doesn't list pressure data, but max charges vary enough to illustrate the point. If these powders were identical, they would have an identical Volumetric Density. The VMD IDriveB5 gave is for cc/grains. Since VMD is also given in grams/liter, those numbers become even more significant. As far as the buyout theory: why bother labelling two different powders if they're identical when you own both labels? Go to Hodgdon's website, they'll tell you which powders are identical.;)
 
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