Here in GA with carry license you can not carry into a publically owned building(i.e. courthouse, county admin. building, etc.), any place that sells alcohol for consumption on the premises or a public gathering. And therein lies my question. The law states that "for this purpose, a public gathering includes, but shall not be limited to, concerts, sporting events, churches or church functions, political rallies." Here in Newnan, GA a man was arrested yesterday for carrying a handgun with a license into Wal-Mart. Someone in the parking lot saw him place his gun from his truck into his IWB holster and called attention to him to store management who called the cops. They came to the store, found him, removed and took possession of his gun, checked his license, excorted him downtown and charged him with carrying a deadly weapon to a public gathering. A long-time judge here in town said if you were in line with two other people at a water fountain you were at a public gathering, two or more people gathered together for a common purpose, to get water. Is Wal-Mart a public gathering? I say not.
Wal-Mart...a public gathering?
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Cacique500
Member
Got a link from any news sources on this?
Lupinus
Member
what in the snickerdoodles? 
yeah judgy boy, great way to twist the ol law there, real great!
yeah judgy boy, great way to twist the ol law there, real great!
times-herald.com
The entire story is not there yet, partial story is now, but should be tomorrow as it was in the paper today. Our paper comes out daily so the whole story should be there tomorrow. Go to the news link to the left.
The entire story is not there yet, partial story is now, but should be tomorrow as it was in the paper today. Our paper comes out daily so the whole story should be there tomorrow. Go to the news link to the left.
rbernie
Contributing Member
WalMarts are not publicly owned buildings, last I checked. If the law is written as you describe, it's hard to see how this all plays out.
However, GA may have carry exclusions (similar to TX 30-06 'criminal trespass') that allow WallyWorld to press charges based upon the license holder having violated those carry exclusion statutes.
However, GA may have carry exclusions (similar to TX 30-06 'criminal trespass') that allow WallyWorld to press charges based upon the license holder having violated those carry exclusion statutes.
It wasn't that it was a publically owned building, the issue is that Wal-Mart is a public gathering, according to arresting officers.
packing.org
go to state ccw info then down to places off limits while carrying.
The law states:
16-11-127.
(a) Except as provided in Code Section 16-11-127.1, a person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he or she carries to or while at a public gathering any explosive compound, firearm, or knife designed for the purpose of offense and defense.
(b) For the purpose of this Code section, 'public gathering' shall include, but shall not be limited to, athletic or sporting events, churches or church functions, political rallies or functions, publicly owned or operated buildings, or establishments at which alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises. Nothing in this Code section shall otherwise prohibit the carrying of a firearm in any other public place by a person licensed or permitted to carry such firearm by this part.
(c) This Code section shall not apply to competitors participating in organized sport shooting events. Law enforcement officers, peace officers retired from state or federal law enforcement agencies, judges, magistrates, solicitors-general, and district attorneys may carry pistols in publicly owned or operated buildings.
(d) It is an affirmative defense to a violation of this Code section if a person notifies a law enforcement officer or other person employed to provide security for a public gathering of the presence of such item as soon as possible after learning of its presence and surrenders or secures such item as directed by the law enforcement officer or other person employed to provide security for a public gathering.
packing.org
go to state ccw info then down to places off limits while carrying.
The law states:
16-11-127.
(a) Except as provided in Code Section 16-11-127.1, a person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he or she carries to or while at a public gathering any explosive compound, firearm, or knife designed for the purpose of offense and defense.
(b) For the purpose of this Code section, 'public gathering' shall include, but shall not be limited to, athletic or sporting events, churches or church functions, political rallies or functions, publicly owned or operated buildings, or establishments at which alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises. Nothing in this Code section shall otherwise prohibit the carrying of a firearm in any other public place by a person licensed or permitted to carry such firearm by this part.
(c) This Code section shall not apply to competitors participating in organized sport shooting events. Law enforcement officers, peace officers retired from state or federal law enforcement agencies, judges, magistrates, solicitors-general, and district attorneys may carry pistols in publicly owned or operated buildings.
(d) It is an affirmative defense to a violation of this Code section if a person notifies a law enforcement officer or other person employed to provide security for a public gathering of the presence of such item as soon as possible after learning of its presence and surrenders or secures such item as directed by the law enforcement officer or other person employed to provide security for a public gathering.
aryfrosty
Member
Wally*World a "public gathering"?
Nope. Not by the hair of my chinny-chin-chin. Wal*Mart is owned by an "entity", and just because 3/4ths of the public in a given area gathers there there's no legal excuse for the Police to egregiously decide that someone who carries there is a violator. "Course, here in Cow Hampshire it's legal to carry openly, but that won't stop Manchester PD from harassing you if you do it.
In fairness to the Police Officers. I am a retired one from Georgia. Many problems occur because we have become a complaint/whine/knee-jerk driven America. That officer might honestlt be surprised to learn that the only legal way he can arrest the man in Newnan would be if Wal*Mart posts their property as "No Carry". I still deal with the well intended public every day, and I am truly amazed at what the public perceives to be the law/s concerning firearms. I have spoken with people who identified themselves as professional/educated/technical folks who were adamant the they heard a machine gun being "shot", and "everybody knows machine guns are illegal...not even Police can have them!" When I point out that they are wrong they immediately decide I'm the one who is stupid. When dealing with morons one qucikly finds that logic and truth have no impact.
Having said that....Honestly, doesn't "concealed carry" mean "CONCEALED carry"? If a person resists the temptation to take it out, ( the weapon, guys), and play with it no one will know they're carrying. Right? I deal with hundreds of people every day who have no idea that I have a Kahr MK9 and 2 spare mags hidden on my person. If the Lord blesses me I'll never have to take them out and protect myself or others and nobody will ever know.
Nope. Not by the hair of my chinny-chin-chin. Wal*Mart is owned by an "entity", and just because 3/4ths of the public in a given area gathers there there's no legal excuse for the Police to egregiously decide that someone who carries there is a violator. "Course, here in Cow Hampshire it's legal to carry openly, but that won't stop Manchester PD from harassing you if you do it.
In fairness to the Police Officers. I am a retired one from Georgia. Many problems occur because we have become a complaint/whine/knee-jerk driven America. That officer might honestlt be surprised to learn that the only legal way he can arrest the man in Newnan would be if Wal*Mart posts their property as "No Carry". I still deal with the well intended public every day, and I am truly amazed at what the public perceives to be the law/s concerning firearms. I have spoken with people who identified themselves as professional/educated/technical folks who were adamant the they heard a machine gun being "shot", and "everybody knows machine guns are illegal...not even Police can have them!" When I point out that they are wrong they immediately decide I'm the one who is stupid. When dealing with morons one qucikly finds that logic and truth have no impact.
Having said that....Honestly, doesn't "concealed carry" mean "CONCEALED carry"? If a person resists the temptation to take it out, ( the weapon, guys), and play with it no one will know they're carrying. Right? I deal with hundreds of people every day who have no idea that I have a Kahr MK9 and 2 spare mags hidden on my person. If the Lord blesses me I'll never have to take them out and protect myself or others and nobody will ever know.
atlctyslkr
Member
There must be something else to this story. I've been "caught" a few times (I've gotten better at concealing over the years) and I have never been arrested. He must have done something. Only been asked for my permit once. I'd love to see the police report on this one.
The paper only says that he when approached by the officers he reached for his CCW license in his pocket. It also says that his license was valid. For all we know his ex-wife may work at Wal-mart and he was intimidating her. The paper never give the whole story. I hope there's more to it than the paper has stated for them to arrest him and charge him. I hope our laws haven't gotten that distorted.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
I'd be surprised if that stands up in court.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Hell no, this will not stand in court, unless there is more to the story than what has been told.
The Attorney General of the State of Georgia has previously stated that a privately owned building or store is explicitly NOT a public gathering. Here is a link to an unofficial opinion from the Attorney General's website:
http://www.state.ga.us/ago/read.cgi?searchval=public gathering&openval=U96-22
Pay particular attention to this excerpt:
"You have recently written my office with a query regarding the scope of O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127. Specifically, you relate that a constituent has apparently been informed by various officials that this Code Section prohibits the possession of a handgun by an individual (even with a firearms permit issued under O.C.G.A. § 16-11-129) in any place open to the public because, if members of the public are present, this constitutes a "gathering" of the "public" and is thus prohibited. For the following reasons, I do not believe that this construction is the appropriate one."
and
"In the same vein, this office concluded that a shopping mall is not a public gathering; the fact that people may be present, even in large numbers, does not necessarily constitute a public gathering. 1984 Op. Att'y Gen. U84-37. Of course, portions of a shopping mall leased to a church or to a government agency, or where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises, are areas to which the Code Section would apply by its own terms."
So I would say that there must be more this story, or else the officers who arrested him don't know how the law is to be interpretted.
The Attorney General of the State of Georgia has previously stated that a privately owned building or store is explicitly NOT a public gathering. Here is a link to an unofficial opinion from the Attorney General's website:
http://www.state.ga.us/ago/read.cgi?searchval=public gathering&openval=U96-22
Pay particular attention to this excerpt:
"You have recently written my office with a query regarding the scope of O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127. Specifically, you relate that a constituent has apparently been informed by various officials that this Code Section prohibits the possession of a handgun by an individual (even with a firearms permit issued under O.C.G.A. § 16-11-129) in any place open to the public because, if members of the public are present, this constitutes a "gathering" of the "public" and is thus prohibited. For the following reasons, I do not believe that this construction is the appropriate one."
and
"In the same vein, this office concluded that a shopping mall is not a public gathering; the fact that people may be present, even in large numbers, does not necessarily constitute a public gathering. 1984 Op. Att'y Gen. U84-37. Of course, portions of a shopping mall leased to a church or to a government agency, or where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises, are areas to which the Code Section would apply by its own terms."
So I would say that there must be more this story, or else the officers who arrested him don't know how the law is to be interpretted.
Z
zeke1312
Guest
Gotta remember, to some Wal*Mart customers, WM is a free Disney World.Their kids ride bikes around the store parents pulled off the bike rack. Kids play with all the toy dept stuff like it's theirs. Parents stand in the isles jaw jacking, walking around the store like it's Busch Gardens. Oh, and watch when they hit the Sporting Goods Dept. Man, lets play basketball, swing baseball bats and otherwise trash the place.
Seems like WM is a public gathering place! Hey while we're at it, lets have a McDonalds icecream cone, get our haircut, do some banking and have our taxes done. Yeah, it's a public gathering place.
Thanks for shopping with us and have a nice day!
Seems like WM is a public gathering place! Hey while we're at it, lets have a McDonalds icecream cone, get our haircut, do some banking and have our taxes done. Yeah, it's a public gathering place.
Thanks for shopping with us and have a nice day!
And you think you have a permit to carry in GA under these laws. I DO NOT THINK SO!
Putting up with this response is unacceptable as it seems the anti-gun and anti-carry law PD is trying to play politics by arrests.
Remember the PD is not your Friend. (Stand by for the cop apologists)
And most think the NE east is bad.
Putting up with this response is unacceptable as it seems the anti-gun and anti-carry law PD is trying to play politics by arrests.
Remember the PD is not your Friend. (Stand by for the cop apologists)
And most think the NE east is bad.
mzmtg
member
GaShooter64
Member
Walmart
My wife used to work for Newnan PD and knows the cops involved. She says they're gung ho, but not idiots, so I suspect there's more to this story than has been published. I'm following this with particular interest because I shop at this Walmart weekly and I cannot remember the last time I was in there without a Kimber strapped to my waist. As far as the judges here, they do pretty much anything they want. This guy needs to get a good lawyer and go through the appeals process.
My wife used to work for Newnan PD and knows the cops involved. She says they're gung ho, but not idiots, so I suspect there's more to this story than has been published. I'm following this with particular interest because I shop at this Walmart weekly and I cannot remember the last time I was in there without a Kimber strapped to my waist. As far as the judges here, they do pretty much anything they want. This guy needs to get a good lawyer and go through the appeals process.
what42
Member
The problem is our incredibly vague law here in Georgia. The law says you can't carry to "public gatherings" but never defines what that term means. From what I understand it was originally passed to prevent people from carrying to Klan rallies and Black Panther marches but it's a horrible law.
Most people don't realize that even though Georgia is a shall issue state, it has some of the worst carry laws in the country.
Most people don't realize that even though Georgia is a shall issue state, it has some of the worst carry laws in the country.
Lower trial judges and the like who are elected (as is often the case in the South) often aren't even lawyers. They don't know the law and they often don't care to. In Mississippi these guys go to a crash course on the law at Ole Miss that, I believe, lasts one long weekend.
It'd be more interesting to speculate on whether or not this guy has any legal recourse against the people who arrested or prosecuted him. Malicious prosecution anyone?
It'd be more interesting to speculate on whether or not this guy has any legal recourse against the people who arrested or prosecuted him. Malicious prosecution anyone?
neoncowboy
Member
I've forwarded this to some of my concerned, gun-toting attorney friends in Atlanta who are always looking for a defendant for a case like this one.
Lucky guy.
Lucky guy.
OK guys. Now it's time for the rest of the story. I happen to speak to two of the three officers involved today at a local pawn shop ran by a buddy of mine. The newspaper report stated that the subject did reach for his waistband. He did in fact reach for his gun in an aggressive manner according to the cops. One cop had a hand on his forearm and as they were walking to a more private area for questioning he aggressively broke free from the officers hold and reached down for the still concealed Ruger 9mm. They did stop his reach. The one officer did say that he honestly felt like the subject was reaching for the gun in a threatening manner, not to retrieve it to turn over to them. The arresting officer did charge him with an inappropriate charge. The officer I spoke with said he should have been charged with obstruction. They both agreed Wal-mart is not a public gathering. We are well within the laws carrying in Wal-Mart in Newnan, Ga.
Haymaker
Member
Woah! Back up a bit on this...........
This citizen's troubles started when some neurotic hoplophobe in the parking lot of Wallyworld spotted this guy tucking his weapon into his holste = And RATTED on him to the management of Wallywierd
Just like the Hitler Youth and the Gestapo = Turn in your neighbors.
Sounds like the Judge in this mess isn't elected
Disgusting, but KEEP IT CONCEALED - oir LOSE it!
This citizen's troubles started when some neurotic hoplophobe in the parking lot of Wallyworld spotted this guy tucking his weapon into his holste = And RATTED on him to the management of Wallywierd
Just like the Hitler Youth and the Gestapo = Turn in your neighbors.
Sounds like the Judge in this mess isn't elected
Disgusting, but KEEP IT CONCEALED - oir LOSE it!
Lone_Gunman
Member
That sounds like bull to me. Why would a totally legal, licensed permit holder reach for his gun in a threatening manner when being questioned by police officers?
If the officers really felt threatened, then why didn't they draw their own weapons?
It sounds to me like you havent told the rest of the story, just the officers side, and it just doesn't add up. My suspicion is they arrested this guy based on their erroneous interpretation of "public gathering", only to find out what they did was wrong, and then made the rest of that story up to cover themselves.
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