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Walther P22 vs. Bersa Thunder 380...

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Norb

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It will be for my wife. She held both today, and to my delight, she liked the Walther as soon as she held it in her hands.
My concern is stopping power. Is there a big enough difference in stopping power down in these calibers for it to even be a concern?
For the right bad guy, she may have to dump the whole mag out of either gun to make a difference....right?

Opinions please?
 
A .380, while on the low end of the handgun power spectrum, is still hits substantially harder than a .22 LR out of a pistol ever will.
 
well, a 9mm is about .380" in diameter. its just a shorter case. i'd say Bersa, the P22 is for paper and tree rats.
 
For the right bad guy, she may have to dump the whole mag out of either gun to make a difference....right?
Click to expand...

By my way of thinking, for the right shooter, one shot from anything will do...

Please don't be hung up on the notion of stopping power. It's a crutch for those who can't hit what they're shooting at.

Ben
 
Please don't be hung up on the notion of stopping power. It's a crutch for those who can't hit what they're shooting at.
Click to expand...

With all do respect, I am not hung up on anything, I like to keep my mind open and wondering, hence my post here. I figure I can always learn something from anybody.
My wife is a great shot, and she told me she feels better about the minor recoil of a .22, I think this is the way to go personally, but I am looking for arguments from the other side.
Thanks for your input.
 
Yea Norb, did not even want to get into it once I typed out a long response. I will let the rest of you handle this one without my input. I say go larger, and learn how to aim. I will just leave it at that I guess. I have seen a man walk away from a 22 shot to the face, so I might be biased in the situation. If she can shoot as you say, you may as well make sure it does the job. The guy hit was back on the street in 3 weeks. I would not be happy to know that if I were the shooter. The recoil should not be an issue if its for personal protection only. That will be the last thing on your mind in that situation IMO.
 
I had a friend who got killed with a .25 to the face.
There are many variables...
my problem is that if she is in anyway apprehensive about the gun, she is less likley to even hit with it at all after her adrenaline dumps.
What gun would you recommend if not a ,22?
If it was up to me, she'd have a 7 shot .38 revolver but she says they are too bulky.
 
My wife carries a 38 S&W 642 airweight, and it has a lot of recoil, but is light, powerfull, easy to conceal, and fits her hand great. When you consider the situation, she shoots well enough with it to hit the target. However, if you feel that your wife will not pick it up and hit the target with something more powerfull, by all means get something lighter. Different situations for different people. At the house, I have a 1911 in the nightstand, and there is a 870 express under the bed. The carry weapon of choice for us was something that could be placed in the purse when she is alone. I just think of drug users high on all kinds of stuff. I did see a vid of a guy taking a shot to the gut with a .40 or .45 that a cop was using. He took the gun away and shot at the cop. It failed to fire. He then beat the cop until backup arrived. Placement is key, but in the event that placement is not easy, I would like to have some power. We do practice a lot with our handguns (about 2-3 times per month) so that might differ from your situation. Its hard to say what your wife would need. In my situation, I would just go larger, and do.
 
IMHO, I would go with the 380 for it's stopping power over the 22. Anyone who say's stopping power is a cruch''''''' well I just don't understand where his head is at. Back to your wife if she likes the 22 better and that's her choice then turn her loose. A 22 is better then nothing, and it can get the job done.
 
I'd have to go with bersa .380 all the way on this one, no contest. A lot of people will disagree with me here, and often do, on the viability of a .22lr for self defense. I speak from personal and professional experience when I say that I couldn't be more against it. Many keyboard kommandos will site the old one of "a .22 has killed more people.. blah blah", but there are many factors which MIGHT make that true that have nothing to do with the use of the cartridge in law abiding self-defense.
You'll also have some responses along the lines of this one above..
Please don't be hung up on the notion of stopping power. It's a crutch for those who can't hit what they're shooting at.
Click to expand...
Well.. while sitting behind the keyboard.. in theory that's great, but it's not very realistic. It's assuming, for one thing, that when ones life requires defending that they will have the luxury of time to not only execute the perfect draw but also assume their perfect range aiming stance. And managing to make perfectly placed shots on a moving target no less. In reality that's not very likely. Practiced shot placement is important, sure, but a true self defense situation is bound to happen close, fast, and unexpectedly. Stopping power is VERY VERY important. As is point shooting from less than ideal positions for that matter.
And all of that aside, the P22 doesn't have a great reputation for reliable feeding.
 
I'd say make sure she knows how to shoot. What is overlooked by most is being aware of ones suroundings.Teach her to watch for trouble.:D
 
Bersa wins hands down. If she wants the 22 I suggest you take out a large insurance policy on her. The 22 is more prone to jams and missfireing due to ammo.
 
Well, all biases aside, the big thing is: with which will she practice? My wife LOVES her P22. She enjoys shooting it. She's working up her courage to shoot my TLE II; until then, I want her comfortable with whatever she's shooting -- and thankfully, she shoots it well.

Lots and LOTS of folks have been killed with a lowly .22 and the supposedly-more-lowly .25. I don't think they're any less dead.

With that said, I DO want the wife to move up to a bigger caliber because, well, bigger IS better if you're putting 'em in the snot locker. If she likes the TLE II (i.e. it becomes hers), then I've got a good excuse to get another one!
:)


K1911F
 
9x19 and .380 ACP are both .355" in diameter, with .380 ACP being known also as 9mm short or 9mm kurz.

Power wise, self defense ammo for .380 ACP should be right around 200ft-lbs, where as typical 22LR is less than 100ft-lbs. However, some ammunition, like CCI Stinger can get up to 150+ft-lbs. But that's typically out of a rifle barrel, and not a short handgun barrel. Look at the ballistics results, and .380ACP is the obvious winner. Sure 22LR can kill people, so can a properly used metal spatula, which are you going to choose for your wife to defend her life? Have her use the largest caliber she is proficient with.

If she loves the P22 get her that and a ladysmith or the bersa, or have her try some 9mm firearms. I own a P22 and it's great for plinking and my fiance likes it, but I sure as hell wouldn't let her use it as a carry gun.

GigaBuist said:
Dunno about you guys but I get failures to ignite about 1% of the time.
Click to expand...
+1
 
If she likes the P22 so much, why not have her test out a P99? A 9mm doesn't buck too hard and is worlds better for defense than any rimfire cartridge.
 
If she likes the P22 get the P22. If she wants to get a bigger gun at some point great.

Obligatory statement: "A .22 is better than a pointy stick".

My P22 required a fairly significant break in. I would say that it took over 500 rounds before everything was working nicely. It is now running like a top. Search for "P22 Bible" on Rimfirecentral.com as well.
 
Obligatory statement: "A .22 is better than a pointy stick".
Click to expand...

That depends... some people are capable of putting surprising amounts of force behind said pointed sticks.

I suppose that the P22 is enough to discourage most attackers, because A) it looks a lot like a P99, and b) nobody really likes to be punched full of holes, no matter the caliber. However, if your wife is determined to get a .22LR for the sake of the softer recoil, wouldnt the P22 be a less optimal choice? Personally I have shot 600+ rounds out of my gunclubs old Hämmerli X-esse, and Ive never seen it fail to shoot or reload.
 
9x19 and .380 ACP are both .355" in diameter, with .380 ACP being known also as 9mm short or 9mm kurz.

Power wise, self defense ammo for .380 ACP should be right around 200ft-lbs, where as typical 22LR is less than 100ft-lbs. However, some ammunition, like CCI Stinger can get up to 150+ft-lbs. But that's typically out of a rifle barrel, and not a short handgun barrel. Look at the ballistics results, and .380ACP is the obvious winner. Sure 22LR can kill people, so can a properly used metal spatula, which are you going to choose for your wife to defend her life? Have her use the largest caliber she is proficient with.

If she loves the P22 get her that and a ladysmith or the bersa, or have her try some 9mm firearms. I own a P22 and it's great for plinking and my fiance likes it, but I sure as hell wouldn't let her use it as a carry gun.
Click to expand...

My wife is a better shot than I prefer to admit. :eek: I think she could put 10 .22 rounds in a shoe box while running away if she had to, but I am leaning towards a 9mm for her, I need to find something small. Any ideas?

BTW that spatula comment almost made me piss my pants! :eek::D
Great visual...:D
 
By the way , has she actually fired the bersa ? I know it's a blowback action and all, but I find it's recoil to be quite minimal.
Click to expand...

No, she hasn't.
Please excuse my ignorance, what do you mean by blowback? :confused:
 
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