Want hunting handgun, not hearing aid. advice please

[A strange person]

For the sake of brevity, let it suffice to say that I want a "survival" weapon for situations where I do not want people to know I have a survival weapon. You cannot conceal a rifle or shotgun under a jacket or in a backpack, so I am talking about handguns. Its purpose will be mainly to hunt small game such as rabbits and squirrels, but should be capable of taking down deer and perhaps black bear without requiring 10 yard eye-socket shots (if I had to kill large game with a .22lr, I'd use it to shoot down a sapling to make a bow). What I do NOT want is hearing damage. I always have, and always will wear hearing protection while practicing, but...well, I should not have to explain why hearing protection is impractical while hunting. However, with center-fire rifles or full-strength magnum handgun rounds I ALWAYS use protection, even while hunting, because there is absolutely no question that these will hurt your hearing. What I am talking about is small game hunting. It would be nice to not have to worry about hearing protection while casually shooting a snack in the woods.

Now, I have a few questions for all the experienced handgunners and reloaders here (bear with me): Will low-velocity (600-800 fps) .38spcl off-the-shelf wadcutter loads cause hearing damage with just 2 or 3 shots every now and then (as with hunting) out of a 6-8" barreled revolver? How about low-velocity.44spcl wadcutters or .45colt CAS loads? How about super slow "round ball" loads? Would the latter be effective on small game out to 30 yards or so? Is there ANY WAY to make a deer blastin' .357, .44, or .45 revolver discharge a round that will kill a rabbit but not my hearing? Or am I doomed to either have to hunt with plugs in, use a slingshot, or say "WHAT?" all the time?

Remember, I am talking about "hunt shooting", 1,2, maybe 3 shots every now and then, not sustained practice with no ear protection. My research has hit a wall:banghead:. I've searched the web, including this site, and found nothing but alot of "better deaf than dead" comments pertaining to HD. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Rail Driver]

Well it really depends on your budget. If it's permitted in your locality, and your budget allows it I'd go with either a well built, suppressed .45 (I prefer 1911s) or a suppressed stocked SBR of the MP5/AK/MAC variety in your choice of caliber as effective suppressors can be had for each platform in the calibers offered on those respective platforms.

Short of delving into class III territory, I would personally recommend an autoloader with a long slide or "target" setup for the purposes of directing the blast away from the shooter and increased sight radius for accuracy. Revolvers, by nature simply aren't quiet unless you go with nagant revolver, which by virtue of it's unique chamber/arbor design, directs all of the powder blast out the muzzle rather than venting around the cylinder as in traditional revolvers.

Aside from either of those, they make these muffs that amplify everything until you shoot, then a valve trips and they have a NAA hearing protection rating around 22db or more depending on what you pay. They also make ear plugs that don't impede normal hearing but a valve shuts when subjected to the high pressure of a gunshot, protecting your hearing the same way. They are much less expensive than electronic solutions and from what you have said, something you wear anyway. Then you can shoot what you want while still being able to protect your hearing and get a tasty critter.

Just my opinion, take from it what you will.

 

[RogueLeader]

Shooting while hunting will cause temporary hearing loss with tinnitus, whether you are using a .22 or a large bore handgun. .22s have a very sharp crack and seem to hurt the ears more than the big bores, which have more of a "boom." I think most hunters don't really experience the temporary loss at the time they shoot at game because their focus is on the game, but the effects are noticed later. The effects, are temporary, however some people will have the ringing in the ears for a few days. I actually think a .44 mag is somewhat easier on the ears. If you are going to use this handgun for hunting the game you described, you'll probably need the .22 mag. Rabbits and other small game can be taken with the specials, while the large game can be taken with the mags. Once again, it doesn't matter what caliber you use, you will experience at least temporary hearing damage. Eventually, you will experience permanent damage as I have. I have a 20% military disability, part of which is hearing damage and tinnitus (I do have hearing aids).

 

[A strange person]

Thanks. I had thought of considering suppressors. I'd have alot of research to do; I know nothing about them right now.

Is a "long slide" simply a long barrel? 'Fraid I don't know much about semi-autos either.

I have vaguely heard of the plugs you mentioned, and also vaguely heard they do not work very well. What are they called? Do you have any links?

 

[A strange person]

I have often read that only a ringing or muffled sensation in your ears means that damage has occured. I have never experienced this after hunting with subsonic .22lr ammo in a 24" barrel. Of course, all of the information I have found on this subject has been ridiculously inconsistent, even published decibel charts pertaining to firearms.

 

[oneounceload]

Wadcutters WILL cause permanent damage, as will most shots fired from just about any gun - you should look at the electronic muffs that also amplify sounds and then cut off when shots are fired

 

[hardworker]

Let me get this straight. You want a pistol that shoots loads powerful enough to down bear and deer, but not so powerful that it hurts your ears? And you don't want to use a 22?

A couple shots outdoors now and then of 357 without plugs is not gonna kill your hearing. That is internet myth. Just don't make a habit of it. And a 22 is far from useless for hunting.

This sounds like you're preparing for the end of the world. Let me ask you this. What would you rather lug around the woods: 500 22lrs or 500 357s? Should the world end, guns should be a last resort for hunting since ammo is for the most part non-renewable. Learn to kill with traps and you'll be better off.

 

[A strange person]

Then what are all of these "cat's sneeze" and "mouse fart" etc. loads I keep running across? And what about "gallery" loads? Alot of my research indicates that quiet handgun loads are possible, but that they just aren't effective on human beings. Not many guys care about killing rabbits and squirrels with handguns.

If the round is subsonic, and the bullet so light that it can be pushed out of the barrel with no more powder than can be completely burnt before the bullet even exits the barrel, I don't see where all of this deafening noise is coming from. However, I am only an internet-surfing armchair expert, I don't really have any experience with handguns or with reloading. Maybe some guys are just so deaf from shooting that they think their light loads are quiet.

 

[A strange person]

I suppose "woods loafing" gun would be a better choice of words than "survival" gun. I am not talking about the end of the world, SHTF, or anything like that. And if you read my whole post, you would know that I meant a gun/caliber that is capable of shooting low power small game loads that will not cause hearing damage.

I cannot count the number of times I have read accounts of people suffering severe hearing damage and tinnitus from shooting .357mag handguns without ear protection.

 

[hardworker]

The quietest small game load will be a 22lr. Hands down. It's also adequate for small game.

 

[Old krow]

I think that in order to achieve what you're looking for a suppressor is in order. But, Henry makes an AR-7 that is pretty nice. It collapses to 16" or so. Kel-Tec makes the Sub-2000 that also collapses into 16". Both of those are small rifles, the Kel-Tec is common pistol calibers.

For hunting, especially small game, a .22 it tough to beat. My pick would be the AR-7 and a revolver for larger game and bipedal threats. Second choice would be a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 and a .22 revolver.

 

[LightningMan]

I don't think there's any pistol that can make your list for needs/wants. Maybe a .357 auto pistol with a silencer would do it. Enough power, without the ear-splitting noise. Thats my guess. LM

 

[A strange person]

Hardworker, I still don't think you read my post. I will never try to kill large game with .22lr.

 

[A strange person]

I was prepared to resign myself to using a suppressor. Guess I got more research to do.

 

[A strange person]

what do you guys think a subsonic .45acp FMJ round would do to a rabbit?

 

[milq]

What about an active hearing protection device? Such as the Walker game ear or even over the ear muffs with electronic suppression.

I will be using Howard Leight electronic muffs for deer hunting the week after Christmas as I have suffered some hearing loss from one shot from a ported .357 a few weeks ago while hunting. I always carry hearing protection and generally have at least one plug in and sneak the other one in before firing, but the deer came out of the woods in a hurry and I couldn't manage to get it in.

I already had some tinnitus but it is now worse in the right ear for sure. My Dr. is sending me on to an ENT for further evaluation of my overall hearing. Protect your ears!

 

[788Ham]

Are you wanting to then eat the rabbit? Or just gaze at what's left of it? Whether suppressed or not, there isn't going to be much to eat after being shot with a .45!

 

[A.Fischer]

I think the best compromise is going to be a .45 acp. Keep it sub sonic and while it's going to ring a bit, probably won't last longer than 5-10 minutes. Just know, it's probably going to destroy small game. You really need a 22lr for that.

Generally, when I'm hunting, I don't even hear the shot. I'm so focused on the target, I don't thing the shot even registers. No ringing in the ears later either.

One time while shooting a CZ-83, I forgot to put on my muffs. Son of a gun, that hurt. My ears were ringing for a while after that. On the same shoot, some of my friends were shooting some 9mm's with no hearing protection at all. Both were Vietnam vets. Yeah, I think they've had some hearing damage from the war.

 

[A strange person]

A slow, non-expanding projectile... It seems to me it would just drill a .45 caliber hole in it, not blow it to bits.

 

[788Ham]

You won't know until you try it, experience is the best teacher, will depend on how hungry you are I guess.

Fischer, this happened to my hearing also, Nam.

 

[A strange person]

I have heard numerous people say that low velocity, hard cast .44spcl loads are not too harsh on small game. Why would a .45acp FMJ be any worse?

 

[A strange person]

Not on my budget it's not.

 

[Old krow]

A Ruger Single Six in a .22 convertible would be pretty high on my list. It can shoot .22 lr and .22 mag. Ammo is cheap, plentiful, and ridiculously light weight. Second choice would be a .357/.38 If you reloaded you could taper down a .38 SPL to work on small game and still have a more powerful round if you needed it. I load some of my .38s to about half power and they aren't nearly as loud. I could cut them down even farther if I needed to I'm sure.

Sub sonic ammo in many cases doesn't save you all that much. Most of the time it only truly saves the "crack" of exceeding the speed of sound. In .45 acp most all of them shot out of a handgun are already sub sonic and still pretty loud. In a carbine they're starting to get close to super sonic if they haven't broken it.

I'm not positive on the numbers, but, in .22 lr sub sonic ammo saves about 20 dbs and the "crack." Depending on where you look a .22 lr can have anywhere from 126 dbs to just under 140 dbs.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

What about an active hearing protection device? Such as the Walker game ear or even over the ear muffs with electronic suppression.

My thoughts exactly..

Or you might put a can on your hunting handgun. I know they are expensive but how much is your hearing worth?

Besides, it will keep the other around you from knowing what you are doing and where you're doing it when:

let it suffice to say that I want a "survival" weapon for situations where I do not want people to know I have a survival weapon.

 

[A strange person]

All good ideas, thanks. I like the suppressor idea the most, but my only concern is that a semi-auto probably wouldn't be able to cycle low-powered small game loads. Maybe a 9mm? Would be marginal even on deer though (my cousin did kill a buck with a 9mm pistol once, however.) The electronic muffs would "work", but I have heard they make it hard to determine the direction of sound, as it is all being played back to you at the same volume right next to your ears. And they are too expensive just to "try". Maybe it's not that big of a deal to simply learn to get good at quickly slipping plugs in before shooting...I already do this with my shotgun.

I have heard of .357mag and .38spcl plinking loads that use a 000 buckshot ball and just enough powder to get the thing out the barrel. How could that possibly make more than a little "pop"? Has anyone experimented with such loads before? It only has to have enough punch to kill a rabbit remember. 5 or 6 little #6 shot pellets seem to do the job, so I am truly unconcerned with power, just accuracy and not getting a stuck bullet. If even that small amount of powder burning can hurt my ears, than...dammit!

Maybe I'll just carry a .44mag revolver and a slingshot.