Weaver vs. Isosceles Stance?

[BamBam-31]

Play nice, fellas. Although a dead horse to some, this thread might actually be beneficial to some newbie reading it just now.

 

[OF]

Sorry. Shake hands, Luke?

- Gabe

 

[P95Carry]

I'll add too - pretty darned good write-up description Gabe .. it sure is way easier to demonstrate than describe!! I am set in my ways now after all the years ... so will stick to my Isoscever - or is it the Weaceles??

 

[BamBam-31]

I'll add too - pretty darned good write-up description Gabe .. it sure is way easier to demonstrate than describe!!

Agreed.

 

[OF]

I have many years on the Weaceles, brother. I know it well.

- Gabe

 

[OF]

More pictures

Behold! The Weaceles!


(that's Brian Enos in his formative years - don't try that at home )

 

[Edmond]

I use the weaver because I feel more comfortable with it. The weaver comes to me more naturally than the ISO.

However, I think the weaver is a little bit more difficult for a newbie shooter to learn because they may tend to think too much about foot and arm positioning. At least that was my experience.

 

[Ankeny]

Gabe is right on the money as far as not dropping one elbow. However, there are exceptions. I was once lamenting to Ron Avery about how a Glock seems to point unnaturally high for me. Avery agreed the Glocks point high for him too, but he shoots them often, especially when training agencies that issue the Glock. Dropping the the support elbow (or rotating it in) will lower the front sight substantially. I think that technique would be very valuable for someone who is issued the Glock, but shoots high.

 

[C. H. Luke]

"I was going to say the same thing to you, but was trying to stay polite."

Hardly, some of your dichotic rhetoric was clearly reactionary voracious competitive provocation.

 

[DMF]

The purpose of the Weaver stance (as it has evolved, not the original intent) is not to win practical pistol matches. Rather, from the law enforcement point of view, the Weaver is naturally achieved from the FI (field interview) stance, in which the officer is at an angle to the interview subject, keeping the gun side away from the subject.

You might want to do some research on the real history of the Weaver stance. LE agencies began adopting it AFTER it started getting used successfully in competition.

Also, most LE agencies that I've dealt with now train the "Field interview stance" when talking to people, but when the action starts it all Isoceles. It is a more natural position for the body, especially after a "startle response," and uses body armor more effectively.

 

[lbmii]

I was going to respond to his thread but my comments might distract from this thread orientation in discussing the major two handed grip styles.

I shoot and advocate a one handed style and will start a new thread on this.

 

[wally]

I like the safety tip at the top of the page:

CAUTION Ensure the muzzle does not cover the left hand when establishing the two-handed grip.

Sheez.

Oh I don't see how its any worse than the typical Glock advice to not put the finger or other objects in the trigger guard while reholstering

I'd imagine the USMC gets more than a few city kids that have never fired a gun before.

--wally.

 

[HungSquirrel]

I'm re-training my brother out of Weaver right now, actually, (he's in LA and I'm in Maine, so it's slow going...) and he commented that he thinks he feels so much more comfortable in Weaver because all the years we played guns as children, that was what we used...that was what all our TV and movie shooter heros used and then it was Weaver for years and years from there. It gets ingrained in there and that comfort level creates alot of inertia.

- Gabe

Exactly why I only feel comfortable in Weaver. I saw cops in movies using Weaver, so when I played with cap guns as a kid, I imitated them. Now, ISO feels completely unnatural.

 

[g56]

Weaver vs. Isosceles Stance?

I shot PPC competition with a revolver for many years, we always used the Isosceles in PPC revolver competitions.

In my case it's all natural, when shooting a revolver I will automatically fall into the Isosceles stance, when shooting an automatic I will automatically fall into the Weaver stance, don't ask me why...it just happens.

 

[OF]

Hardly, some of your dichotic rhetoric was clearly reactionary voracious competitive provocation.

Yeah...well....YOUR MOMMA!

- Gabe

 

[Maddock]

Interesting thread.

Any advice on re-grooving an old Weaver shooter?

 

[OF]

It's really best to have someone teach the new platfrom to you in person. It would be a bummer to try and learn it from text, get something wrong and then develop a bad habit, or worse, decide you don't care for it based on a flawed implementation.

That said, you just have to start trying it out for a while and see if it works for you. It didn't take me long to shake Weaver. Dryfire is the key to progress, you don't have to be on the range with live ammo to make it happen.

The grip is really the most radical change. I find people take to the symetrical arm position fairly quickly but it takes a while to get comfortable with the new grip, but once you do you'll never go back.

- Gabe

 

[Maddock]

Thanks, I understand the value of having a coach, especially on the basics.

 

[DMF]

Any advice on re-grooving an old Weaver shooter?

Kruzr already gave you this link, but I'll post it again:

http://www.americanshooter.com/Features/RL1/rl1.html

While getting one on one instruction is always best, you can read this and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

A few hundred presentations, with that grip and stance, during a couple days of dry fire practice should get you started nicely. It worked for me.

 

[OF]

Dropping the the support elbow (or rotating it in) will lower the front sight substantially.

That is a sweet tip, Ankeny. I have all kinds of trouble with Glocks because the front sight is always perched on top of the rear sight whenever I bring the gun up. What possessed Gaston to play with the grip angle is beyond me.

- Gabe

 

[C. H. Luke]

"Dropping the the support elbow (or rotating it in) will lower the front sight substantially."

That even works with the modified Weaver...

 

[Group9]

One good point about the Weaver is that it is a natural defensive position. Think about the last time you were in a potentially dangerous confrontation with a person. Were you standing in a Weaver or an ISO at the time?

If you don't shoot from the position you find yourself going to in a crisis, are you going to switch before firing, or fire from a different position than you practice from?

Just some stuff I always think about when Weaver vs. ISO comes up.

 

[Edmond]

One good point about the Weaver is that it is a natural defensive position. Think about the last time you were in a potentially dangerous confrontation with a person. Were you standing in a Weaver or an ISO at the time?

If you don't shoot from the position you find yourself going to in a crisis, are you going to switch before firing, or fire from a different position than you practice from?

Just some stuff I always think about when Weaver vs. ISO comes up.

Some instructors of martial arts who also gun train teach the weaver because of that. We're taught for the strong side back to keep the weapon further away from the threa.

 

[DrDremel]

The weaver is better for weapon retention in a self defense situation. The firearm is closer to the body and easier to keep control of. having both arms out is not conductive to keeping control should anyone attempt to take control of the handgun. As for faster followup shots, it won't matter in the real world. Hits are all that matter and the targets will be less than 10 feet from you in over 98% of all gunfights. At that distance simply acquiring the target and two quick pulls will hit in either stance. Training in the weaver stance allows a quicker transfer to the isosceles than the other way around.

 

[Edmond]

Which one is taught more to LE agencies?

I saw something on CNN a few years ago where they taught the ISO to FBI agents and a former LEO commented on the adjustment that he needed since he'd been using weaver until that point.