Went to research & rent, ended up buying a Walther P1.

[bigfatdave]

We went to our somewhat local gun shop which has a range and rental program to research SD/HD handguns, and had about given up on getting to rent a 9mm handgun that would be a good fit to MrsBFD's hands [tiny] and usable for my hands [yeti].
So after some renting and shooting [SIG226, Glock17, S&W M&P [in .40] we took a break and were browsing the used/new handguns looking for a better fit, and hoping to find then as a rental elsewhere or in the future.
After some digging through the overloaded used gun section, I spotted something odd in the back, tag obscured, no visible markings, "lugeresque" profile. Turns out it was a Walther P1 made in 1979 and refurbished sometime since then. Appeared to have been refurbished and then not used much, as it was cosmetically in pretty good condition. MrsBFD liked the grip and action, as did I, so we inquired on the possibility of firing it.
This local shop will let you shoot their used handguns on their range with their ammo. No range fee, but if you don't buy, there is a $20 cleaning fee.
We were sure to buy this gun assuming it didn't malfunction ... but I admit that the $20 cleaning fee was probably a subconscious factor in the shop's favor.

So we ran 50 rounds through it, no problems except a failure to lock open with an after-market magazine twice in 5-6 attempts [we tried to replicate with single round in the mag, and of course it laughed off our troubleshooting by functioning perfectly]
It is a breeze to strip, I had it figured out with only a basic glance at the manual online, and could do it without reference material after one run-through. After my Ruger MKIII, a gun that needs no tools to strip is a nice change. In fact, the only gun I have stripped that was simpler is MrsBFD's P22 after we converted it to short barrel.


I have some questions on the gun, perhaps better suited to their own threads, but I'll drop them here and see what happens.
1-Hopefully we got a reasonable deal on our new toy. Is paying $319 for a good condition refurb P1, 2 magazines, and a decent case [Doskocil] from '79 too much?
2-I know that it can't handle the higher power 9mm, does anyone recommend any particular ammo brand or load?
3-Is there any chance of this being a CCW handgun? If you didn't guess from the screen name, I'm fairly large at 6'3" and 325#, so there's a lot of room to conceal all kinds of things, but the shape/length of the P1 seems to not lend itself to a concealable holster.
4-Where would be good for getting magazines? Walther certainly doesn't have them any more, they don't even have a manual online [I found one elsewhere in PDF]
5-Any other tips/tricks/must-have-accessories for the P1? We are novice shooters, so advice would be appreciated.

I'll get some pictures tacked on tonight. Pix were taken, but quality is low.
Hopefully I can get my camera to focus on small, close things.

 

[XLMiguel]

BFD, there are several Walther forums around that can help you learn about your new 'baby'. e.g. http://www.waltherforum.com/ and http://www.carlwalther.com/ has parts and does repairs on older walthers.

As far as your acquisition price, you did fine. You can compare prices on Guns America, Gunbroker and other firearms auction sites, or dealers LIke AIM Supplus, CDNN, etc., but my bro-in-law bought one in very good shape two years ago for $425 or so.

Re: Ammo - it's a German Walther, Euro 9 mm tends to be a bit hotter than what we routinely get in the US, so I think you'll be fine with any factory load for practice, and it should handle +p stuff for HD. (It does have an alloy rather than steel frame like the P-38, so I wouldn't run a steady stream of +P, but I wouldn't worry about some for practice and for HD use.) I like Federal HydraShok, Remington Golden Sabres, or Speer Gold Dot 115 or 124 gr. to name a few as SD/HD loads, but you'll have to fire some of each to find which (if any) is particularly synergistic with your pistol. It's all good stuff -

CCW, why not? People carry all sorts of pistols, I suspect your biggest challenge will be finding a good holster. Shoulder rigs and belt slides @ 4 o'clock can work well for a big guy (I'm 6'3.255#).

CDNN, Natchez Shooter's Supply, Cheaper than Dirt, and many others are likely sources for extra mags. See also the resources in the "Links" section here and at www.thefiringline.com.

Welcome to THR.

 

[bigfatdave]

Thanks, XLMiguel.
I should have thought of CheaperThanDirt, they have new aftermarket and used factory.
Which would you use?
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MAG805-36.html
or
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MAG782-36.html

Am I correct that P38 and P1 magazines are interchangeable?

 

[bigfatdave]

pictures

Left side view.
Easy takedown!
Not too much wear on feed ramp, extractor/striker or rifling.

Anyone care to share an opinion on condition?

 

[Onmilo]

You got a good one.
Try here for new and used genuine Walther P38 and P1 marked magazines.
Don't buy aftermarket, they are all crap.

http://www.cdnninvestments.com

For ammunition, see if you can find some 115 grain FMJ Federal Americal Eagle 9mm in your area.HTH

 

[capttom]

your Walther

It looks as if you got a winner. It has the new style slide - the area of serrations for racking the slide extend in front of the safety - and it has the hex nut reinforcement of the frame. If you look along the sides of the frame, it should have the dates the gun was refurbished at a German arsenal, for example 8/70. There should be several since the methodical Huns took them out of storage every 6-7 years for checking.
I use my P-1s for home defense (upstairs/downstairs). I've never found a decent carry holster although I know some were carried by plainclothes French police in the 502- early 60s. The limiting factor for me would be the width of the slide. It's humongous because of the dual recoil springs.
Keep an eye on the locking block and the frame recesses. I've heard of (but never seen) problems with cracks. These may be more of a concern for P-38s of late war manufacture.
I think the P-1s are fun to shoot. I like the loaded chamber indicator pin above the hammer and the ease of disassembly.

 

[MAKster]

On the walther forum they recommend using WWB 115 grain. The hex pin strengthens the frame but you don't want to use hot loads.

 

[searcher451]

Do yourself a big favor and visist the P38 Forum. Here's a link:

http://forums.p38forum.com/

Go to the Post War section under P38s and read the sticky notice on shopping for P1s. Then do a search on ammo use for the P1 (Winchester white box 115 grain), springs replacements for P1s (why it's recommended, where to get the new springs, what you should pay, etc.), and any other question that might cross your mind. The folks on this forum have been researching this information and sharing their findings for years; there's nothing new under the sun, especially here.

Good luck. You'll love your new gun.

 

[jimk66]

Walther P1

BFD, You did good on two counts: 1st: The P1 is a great little 9mm pictol and 2nd: the price was right. The German P1's are very accurate, reliable, comfortable to shoot and lots of fun. Go here for the info you need regarding your new pistol> http://forums.p38forum.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=9c2eff7215a11869c912b66ad6b8bce4
I shoot winchecter White box ammo I get at Walmart and the P1 eats it like candy.
Here's a pic of mine.

I use BF CLP to clean it for what ever it's worth, and BFD, to be honest if I were going to carry the P1 for ccw it would probably be in a shoulder rig because it's a little long, has sights that stick out fairly prominately especially the front sifht.
Just an aside: CDNN has A&B gradeHK P7 9mm Squeeze Cockers for $5&674 that you can't tell from a new pistol. These are WGerman Policae turnins and are the finest, safests pistols ever made. They arn't made anymore and have increased in value since I've had mine. They are unbelievably accurate, reliable, thin and perfect for ccw. I'll bet you ten to 1 MrsBfd will adopt it very quickly. Mine did!!!!
I think these German turnins are some of the highest quality pistols ever made and at fantastic prices. I'm sorry for getting off track a little BFD, but just trying to help you out.
Best,
JimK

 

[hans1911]

Very nice! I am picking up a P1 in similar condition Saturday. I owned one before with the hex pin upgrade, but it didn't have the "fat" slide. It shot very well, and I had to sell it to fund the divorce lawyer.

Winchester white box 115's seem to work great in P1's/P38's. The last one I had would shoot a couple of different hollow point loads, but I don't remember which ones. Cheaper Than Dirt has some mags for $14 right now.

As far as holsters go, the "generic fit" type that fit the Beretta 92, etc. have been reported to work well with P1s. I would avoid hot ammo, and enjoy shooting the heck out of it.

 

[bigfatdave]

Thanks for all the good info [to all the replies]
The CCW issue is mostly curiosity, I'd like to be able to CCW this one, but a shoulder rig isn't much of an option. Perhaps someday I'll find a IWB or pocket holster with a spacewarp.
MrsBFD does have some monster purses ... ... have to think on that.

As to the winchester white box, is that only full jacket target ammo, or hollowpoint? I have designated the P1 as the home defense weapon for now, as our research into carry guns has been derailed until that fund builds back up.

Just an aside: CDNN has A&B grade HK P7 9mm Squeeze Cockers for $5&674 that you can't tell from a new pistol. These are W.German Policae turn ins and are the finest, safest pistols ever made. They aren't made anymore and have increased in value since I've had mine. They are unbelievably accurate, reliable, thin and perfect for ccw. I'll bet you ten to 1 MrsBfd will adopt it very quickly. Mine did!!!!
I think these German turn ins are some of the highest quality pistols ever made and at fantastic prices. I'm sorry for getting off track a little BFD, but just trying to help you out.

No worries on going off-track, info is good, hopefully we can be prepared for picking out carry handguns when the time comes.
We are liking the concept of a trade-in or surplus CCW, but a bunch of renting&shooting, the P1 and some goodies to go with it blew that category of the budget for a few months at least.
But that squeeze-cocker design is intriguing, now I want one just for taking apart. Hopefully it could be a carry gun [for MrsBFD or me] once I get it back together!

Thanks again for the helpful replies, THR is one of the best forums I've seen, particularly in this category.
I half expected someone to come in and flame my new toy for not being their favorite caliber, or to suggest we add a rail and laser or tac light.
Can we add a lazor and some drum mags and bayonets and some sweet tacticool stuff?
Now that I think about it, a military/police trade-in is way more tactical than any armchair ninja's super tactical safe/range gun ... too bad I can't get the history on it, I don't know whether to hope it was a peace officer's never-used sidearm or part of some commie door-kicking-ins.

 

[Mp7]

( maybe get a TT33 in 9mm for MrsBFD?)

Nice gun.


As german police is not really trigger happy
and we´re "the methodical huns" i give thumbs up
on the qual of turn-ins.
(i dont even know, if u can shoot in your freetime with
your duty-gun... so they only have the qual-rounds through them)

 

[bigfatdave]

maybe get a TT33 in 9mm for MrsBFD?

Any particular reason you recommend that one?
I'm no expert, but it looks a bit bulky in the grip for her [holding and firing are the only way to be sure, of course]
We're still scratching heads on the subject of her CCW, the location is pretty much decided [purse], but as to what to put in that purse, we're clueless. A Walther P99 might be an option for MrsBFD, she does like the ergonomics of the P22. If only the 22LR was a defense round, the P22 would be a great purse/pocket gun. Perhaps the space warp needs to be in the gun, not the holster.
I'm liking both SIG and Springfield XD, but more experience will hopefully add to the list of carry options. I understand that the P6 is still all over the market as surplus / trade-in, maybe if we make it to a gun show we'll find a irresistible deal on one, and that magic grip shape that MrsBFD is looking for in something else.

 

[jimk66]

P1

BFD, The HK P7 is a perfect ccw weapon for either men or women. It's a thin gun making it perfect for a purse. +++IT'S SSEXY AS HELL....
Seriously Dave, There are lots of great semi's on the market so take your time and chose whats best for you and your wife. Not what someone else says you should have or like. Block all that crap out and focus of what's best for Dave and his wife.

JimK

 

[rocinante]

I have a 6/76 P1 I liked enough I had it hard chromed and put walnut grips on it. Doesn't make any money sense but I like the way the gun looks.

 

[jimk66]

P1

I'd love to see a pic of that beauty. Who did it for you and are you happy with their work? I've been considering very seriously getting a little P5 thats kinda rough on the exterior, but like new on the internals refinished in Robar or hard chrome. If I decide to get it I'll be looking for some advice from you guy's on where to have it done.
You know....the way I look at it is if it makes sense to me and it makes me happy who cares whether it makes money sense or any sense to anyone except yourself. What the heck...my, my hobby, my money and it's my damn choice.
However there are those who would like to tell you how, where, when and how much to spend your time, money.
Regards,
JimK

 

[bigfatdave]

jimk66:
The HK P7 looks more and more interesting the more I see it.

Are they common at shows? Doesn't look like something a local shop would have on hand.

 

[TehK1w1]

P1's are great, and the hex pin and fat slide are a definite bonus. My father has one that I've shot a bit and I love it. The mags do interchange with p38 mags, as do most parts. I wouldn't shoot +p or anything over 124gr. through it. The biggest downside to it however is it's shape, I can't conceal one at all. A good holster might help, but it would probably have to be custom-made.

 

[jimk66]

P1/p7

Dave, the P7's aren't a gun you'll find in many gun shops because people just don't sell these great little pistols. However, you'll run across them at shows and in shops once in a while and they're generally priced on the high side. I saw a couple last month at the show and they were asking over $850.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, CDNN has excellent Grade A&B P7's (that is if they have any left) that look new for the best prices I've seen. I have an A and my buddy has a B and I couldn't tell the difference.
Once you shoot one you'll have to have it. I also challenge you to do a search and find anything negative anywhere about the gun except that it will get warm if your doing a lot of double tapping or emptying magazines one after another as you can pull the trigger. Other than that I can't think of anything.
Of course if you want to spend around $1200-1500 you can get the newer P7M8 with the upgrades that ina heat shield above the trigger.
You pick up a P7 and along with your P1 you'll have a wonderful HD gun and the perfect ccw weapon. +, with those two guns and practice you can shoot with anybody anywhere.
Hope this helps,
JimK