What’s with the 300 blackout stigma?

[Deus Machina]

For one, it's new. New cartridges always go through grumbling.
One one side, you have the people invested in .223/5.56. They're happy with the smaller, faster round and don't see the need for a heavier, slower one.
On the other you have 7.62x39. If they're traditionalists, they don't see the point of trying to recreate it in an AR. If they're not, they see the blackout as superfluous, or prefer the bit of speed the 7.62 provides, or just don't know why you would want to pay more for comparable performance without the reliability of a tapered case.
Of course, the suppressor guys seem to have taken a liking to it.

 

[mcb]

I agree reloading makes 300 BO ammo costs a non-issue. I have not loaded cast bullets yet but I am reloading Berry's 220gr played for subsonics plinking ammo for about $.30/rd.

 

[jmorris]

I never did a .300-221, 300 fireball, or 300 whisper and really didn’t intend to put together a 300 blk but wound up building machines to convert 223 blanks into 300 blk cases and in the R&D process wound up with thousands of reasons to build one.

I still don’t have any use for it but since when does that matter?

 

[Jackal]

The day that factory .300 ammo is available for 30 cents per round, I will buy one. The round actually makes more sense to me as a supersonic round. .300 subs are about as effective as .45acp. Might as well put together a .45acp for silenced use and save thousands in ammo.

 

[FL-NC]

Kind of like this (minus the color'd PMAGs)??

View attachment 818755

Yep. Except I would have marked the upper.

 

[mcb]

The day that factory .300 ammo is available for 30 cents per round, I will buy one. The round actually makes more sense to me as a supersonic round. .300 subs are about as effective as .45acp. Might as well put together a .45acp for silenced use and save thousands in ammo.

When a 45 ACP bullet has a BC(G1) of .4 I will switch from 300 BO back to 45 ACP. The only 45 cal suppressor that interests me is one for my 450 Bushmaster.

 

[FL-NC]

The day that factory .300 ammo is available for 30 cents per round, I will buy one. The round actually makes more sense to me as a supersonic round. .300 subs are about as effective as .45acp. Might as well put together a .45acp for silenced use and save thousands in ammo.

Except- you won't find a 45 ACP carbine or probably not even the top half of one for less than $400, and you can't put 45 ACP thru the can designed for 30 caliber, and you can't change the 45 subs for a 125 grain supersonic soft point. My inspiration to get the Ruger ranch and suppress it was the old WW2 Delisle carbine- a chopped SMLE rifle rebarreled in 45 ACP with an integral suppressor. I would take a shot on a deer up to 100 yards with it, and I know that the SUB-X will still expand.

 

[<*(((><]

When a 45 ACP bullet has a BC(G1) of .4 I will switch from 300 BO back to 45 ACP. The only 45 cal suppressor that interests me is one for my 450 Bushmaster.

A subsonic load doesn’t need a BC(G1) of .4. By the time the high BC presents its benefits the subsonic load has very little terminal performance. In my opinion anyways. Ballistic Coefficient doesn’t mean anything to me in a subsonic load.

The BC of .4 that a heavy .308 has isn’t doing much when leaving the muzzle at 1050 FPS, any distance longer than 75 yards and the velocities for anything other than paper punching is gone, and he high BC is next to irrelevant.

When I think of subsonic I think 100 yards and in, as the use with the velocities is very limited outside that range.

 

[JR24]

Between the two, I like shooting .300 BLK more. Something about the recoil characteristics and my dislike of AK ergonomics I think. I'm sure if I had them in bolt guns or something I might change.

I load 110 grain VMAX for < $.30/round mostly from scavanged and chopped .223 brass that's all over my range. I enjoy the process and usually keep the .300 as the HD carbine.

As for wrong ammo. It is a foolish thing not to be sure what round you are loading into a gun, period. Maybe it was my teaching as a youth with 12 and 20 gauge shotguns, but that's range basic safety 101 far as I'm concerned. I know people do it, but I've seen guns blown up from leaving bore site lasers in as well. Doesnt make the lasers unsafe or anything.

Even so, I use pmags for my .300 and aluminums for my .223 and both uppers are quite different in appearance and optics, because why not hedge my bets, safety wise.

 

[tarosean]

People are weird about the .300BO, just as they are about the 6.5CM. I hear grumblings about "hype" and "marketing" but I can't for the life of me figure out where they are exposed to so much hype or marketing.

Or is it just "why change what works" from a vast majority of the public.?

 

[Archie]

The .300 Blackout was marketed and hyped as a suppressible sniper round. I have no need for such a rifle. .300 Blackout was designed to fit and function in an AR-15 type rifle. I have one, by accident. it's never been shot.

I already have a number of rifles firing cartridges 'above and beneath' the ballistics involved. Were I interested in a rifle of intermediate power for general purposes, I would likely go for an SKS. 7.62x39 is far cheaper to shoot and I don't reload spray and pray ammunition.

I don't think the indifference toward .300 Blackout is a 'stigma', just a lack of meeting the shooter's goals.

 

[kcofohio]

I still don’t have any use for it but since when does that matter?

I got a pistol upper for a hard to turn down price. So I had to build a pistol lower.
No definite role for it yet. But it is there and components as long as there are .223/5.56s and .308" bullets.

 

[Glockula]

I think a lot of the hate came from people who know little about guns and hyped the round beyond its capabilities. Providing false claims and silly hype. The 309 blk is what it is and I love it. I always said if they made a .357 mag AR I would buy it. Well that is the niche the 300 black has taken and I really like it.

I hear the complaints on the ability to blow fire a up and they are valid and real. If you don't think you can keep your ammo straight this is definitely not for you. I have many different calibers and I am very careful with what I put in the gun. I even have different loads for different guns in the same caliber. When I shoot I know what load I am shooting and catalog the results. I am not really a blaster as that seems like a waste of ammo to me. I am not knocking those who do things differently, just presenting the other side of staying organized with your rounds.

 

[GBExpat]

I got a pistol upper for a hard to turn down price. So I had to build a pistol lower. ...

<chuckle> I have many of my firearms for just that reason ... I came across deals that were too hard for me to refuse.

 

[dh1633pm]

But none of those share the same magazines. Big difference.

One doesn't need a shared "AR" mag to insert the wrong cartridge into an internal box mag or even into a single shot. I have 5.56, 6.8 SPC, 7.62x39 and 300 BLK all in the same house. Haven't swagged a bullet yet.

I like the BLK for what it is. No more and no less. Brass easy to make, nice complement of loading data, bullets in 308. Can shoot light weights and heavy weights from the same platform. I do not have a semi in 300 BLK.

 

[SamT1]

I’m a blackout fan, I own 2 of them I use them for pretty specific hunting tasks. Most of my friends that have hunted with them with me end up buying one. However, everyone who doesn’t reload ends up selling the gun or upper after the new wears off. It’s just too expensive to shoot the round count Desired from a AR.

I use steel mags for blackout and Pmags for 223. That’s the best solution for possibly running the wrong ammo.

I like how it sips powder, shoots cast well, doesn’t give up big with short barrels, parts interchange with 223. I wish it could magically shoot a 150 gr bullet to 2700 from a 10.5 barrel. Find that on and I’m all in

 

[jmorris]

A subsonic load doesn’t need a BC(G1) of .4. By the time the high BC presents its benefits the subsonic load has very little terminal performance. In my opinion anyways. Ballistic Coefficient doesn’t mean anything to me in a subsonic load.

Actually went through that just a couple of days ago when the subject of using sub 6.5’s, came up.

If we took the 123gn SMK and loaded it to 1050 FPS the first thing we do is take a hit in the BC, normally .510 over 1635fps but drops to .420 subsonic (not that it matters much going that slow).
https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/...mm-123-gr-HPBT

Anyhow zeroed at 100 we get

0 yd -1.5” 301 ft/lb energy
50 yd 3.4”
100 yd 0
150 yd -12.1
200 yd -33.5
300 yd -105.3 229 ft/lb energy

Keeping everything the same but using a 405 gn bullet with a .281 BC we get

0 yd -1.5 991 ft/lb energy
50 yd -3.5”
100 yd 0
150 yd -12.7”
200 yd 35.2”
300 yd -111.5” 674 ft/lb energy

So the big old bullet that has the BC of a brick doesn’t loose that much before trajectory gets almost unusable, with both loads. It is also worth noting that it has more than twice the energy at 300 yds than the lighter bullet has at the muzzle and over 3 times the energy upon exit.

At 2000 yards the lead for energy the 405 has over the slicker 123 is cut to just 63 ft/lbs but you are looking at 879.5 FEET of drop at that point...



It’s hard for me to argue the 300’s benefit with subs over 45 ACP. You’ll have a lot better chance with decent bullet performance with 45 subs because most “standard” loads are already subsonic. Brass is more common, bullets are cheaper and 1lb of powder will load hundreds more rounds.

That said you can’t have one of everything without both.

 

[mcb]

How many 45 ACP are going to group well at 100yd, 150yd? I have a hard time believing the accuracy potential of 45ACP is greater than 300 BO subsonic at those types of distances.

A 30 caliber suppressor is going to be quieter than a 45 ACP suppressor for similar weight/volume of suppressor. That smaller hole in the exit baffle is not to be dismissed.

Cost of powder is really non-issue due to being such a smaller percentage of the ammo cost. 4-5gr in 45 ACP 9-11gr in 300BO. That is such a small percentage of the cost $.02 - $.04 ultimately 45 ACP is probably cheap but that is almost total due to the cheaper bullets.

45 ACP is probably cheaper to run but at moderate distance I still think 300BO will out perform it in accuracy and potentially quieter.

 

[CraigC]

The day that factory .300 ammo is available for 30 cents per round, I will buy one. The round actually makes more sense to me as a supersonic round. .300 subs are about as effective as .45acp. Might as well put together a .45acp for silenced use and save thousands in ammo.

You could say that about any cartridge but .223, 9mm, .40S&W and the occasional deal on .45ACP. The only problem with the rest of your statement is that there are plain few readily available .45's and you lose the option of going supersonic. THAT is the advantage the .300BO has, it does equally well with BOTH subsonic and supersonic loads. Same can be said for the .450 and .458 but the increase in recoil is exponential.

 

[mjsdwash]

i got a BO because medium rifle powder, 224 bullets were out of stock for 4 years. H110, .308 bullets not so much. FWIW i have never chronoed an X39 over 2300 fps in a 16" barrel. i know people claim 125 at 2600, but never seen it myself. My BO does 110s at 2380 btw

 

[jmorris]

How many 45 ACP are going to group well at 100yd, 150yd? I have a hard time believing the accuracy potential of 45ACP is greater than 300 BO subsonic at those types of distances.

A 30 caliber suppressor is going to be quieter than a 45 ACP suppressor for similar weight/volume of suppressor. That smaller hole in the exit baffle is not to be dismissed.

Accuracy is dependent on a number of factors and I don’t think there is a huge difference in any rounds subsonic potential at such short ranges. Go super and the 300 can leave it in the dust at longer ranges though.

Weight/volume in suppressors is probably why I am less impressed with the 300 because I use one of my 308 cans that has a lot less volume than my form 1 cans for my 458 socom or 9mm AR. Both are substantially quieter than the 300, despite having larger holes but it’s far from an apples to apples comparison because of the huge volume differences.

The 458 at the top spins hogs around with subsonic loads and the 9mm at the bottom takes out coyotes at the house and doesn’t wake up the wife, downstairs. The 300 is neat to look at though.

 

[mcb]

Accuracy is dependent on a number of factors and I don’t think there is a huge difference in any rounds subsonic potential at such short ranges.

Weight/volume in suppressors is probably why I am less impressed with the 300 because I use one of my 308 cans that has a lot less volume than my form 1 cans for my 458 socom or 9mm AR. Both are substantially quieter than the 300, despite having larger holes but it’s far from an apples to apples comparison because of the huge volume differences.

The 458 at the top spins hogs around with subsonic loads and the 9mm at the bottom takes out coyotes at the house and doesn’t wake up the wife, downstairs. The 300 is neat to look at though.

View attachment 818869

View attachment 818870

Imagine how quiet 300 BO would be in a suppressor the size of that 458 suppressor? By the way, who makes that 458 suppressor I am looking for one for my 450 Bushmaster.

 

[jmorris]

I made the 458 and 9mm cans the one on the 300 in the middle is an AAC 7.62SD.

The 458 can telescopes back over the barrel for volume without so much extra length added to the 16” barrel, keeping it a one stamp item. The 9mm is permanent at 16.125” with the end cap removed, to keep it one stamp. And the 300 is $200 for the SBR and another $200 for the can.

The big ol 458 can doesn’t look so ridiculously long of a setup if you don’t put it beside shortys.



This is my buddy shooting it at the 300 yard steel with subs, he missed the 3rd shot.



Sounds like it takes a long time for the bullet to get there and it does but 1/2 that time is the sound of impact getting back.

 

[dogtown tom]

What’s with the 300 blackout stigma?

You mean the stigma that its a fine round for hog hunting?

AR15 in .300blackout+silencer+30round mag+Aimpoint optic may be the best combination for hog hunting there is.

 

[kozak6]

I don't have a suppressor. I don't reload. I already have 7.62x39 for my AK. For me, .300 blk is unnecessary and expensive.

Seriously, though, factory ammo in .300 blk costs 2-3x more than 7.62x39 or 5.56.