What do you do if you're involved in a shooting?

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Oregongundude

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I've been reading a lot of information about how to react when your involved in an actual shooting in self defense.

I found this information and was wondering if anyone has any additional opinions?

What Do You Do If You Are Involved In A Shooting?

You have the right to have an attorney. You have the right to refuse to answer questions. You have a right to exercise these rights. You also have the right to appear suspicious even if you're innocent of any wrong doing, but why would you want to? Right, you wouldn't.

It may not look to good to the officers on the scene if you appear to be uncooperative. So be cooperative in an intelligent way. In a way that helps the police do their job while still maintaining your freedom, your rights, and your credibility.

Do not lie to the police
Do not make stuff up to make your actions look better
Do not exaggerate
Say as little as possible, without alienating the investigators, until you speak with an attorney. Be cooperative but inform the police you need time to regain your composure. Convey the following points
Make the point that you were in fear for your life and that you tried to stop (and if true took actions to avoid) the attack. I said stop the attack. I did not say kill the attacker. There is a difference. If the attacker dies as a result of your actions, so be it, that is different than having the intentions of killing the attacker - which may be justifiable but it is a hell of a lot more diplomatic and smarter to express concerns for your safety than running at the mouth about "killing that son of a bitch." Your primary concern was about keeping yourself safe and alive not killing that predator.
Get in contact with a criminal defense attorney as soon as possible
Know this - the police are not your friends. They are professionals who have a job to do and you are on a crime scene. They do not know if you are the victim or the perpetrator. They do not know if your actions are reasonable, they are trying to determine that. They are there to investigate what has happened. Let them do their job, but don't hurt yourself in the process by running at the mouth.
After you have communicated the necessary information to the police - you should be in a position to read their reactions to your story and you may get a feel for how they will handle this in their report. Be a sympathetic figure. Once they have gotten their information from you, remember Silence is Golden.

Provide the police with the basic information they need. How the events went down and that you used deadly force because you were fearful for your life. You resisted to save your life. Right now, you are too upset to go into any further details and that you will speak with them as soon as you have a chance to calm down (within the next 24-36 hours). Use this time to get an attorney. Follow your attorney's advice.

I found this information at
http://www.members.tripod.com/aphdmansoc/streetsmarts/id34.htm
 
Call the Police.
Identify yourself as the armed citizen who defended himself.
When they arrive do exactly what they say.
Use words like 'stop' rather than 'kill'.
Exercise your right to a lawyer and silence.
Spend your savings.
 
real_name
Call the Police.
Identify yourself as the armed citizen who defended himself.
When they arrive do exactly what they say.
Use words like 'stop' rather than 'kill'.
Exercise your right to a lawyer and silence.
Spend your savings.
Click to expand...

Umm...how can you exercise your right to silence when you keep saying things like 'stop' rather than 'kill' and identify yourself as a citizen who defended himself? :confused:

In all honesty, just shut your cake hole and say absolutely nothing pertaining to the case. They will find your ID and permit in it (if your state has one) so they'll get your name, address and other particulars. They will ask you questions to get you to say something stupid because you'll be all stressed out and overwhelmed. Yes, you will probably say something stupid if you open up you gob when they start asking you questions so keep quiet until your lawyer shows up.

Absolute silence is your best policy 100% of the time in these cases,
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
 
You have the right to have an attorney. You have the right to refuse to answer questions. You have a right to exercise these rights. You also have the right to appear suspicious even if you're innocent of any wrong doing, but why would you want to? Right, you wouldn't.
Click to expand...

Correction - you had these rights until about 24 hours ago when the law changed.
 
I think it is important that you quickly get your side of the story out, completely truthfully, before anyone else can. For some reason, they seem to believe the first guy to talk.

After that, shut up and get a lawyer.
 
I believe that I would say something along the lines of, "Thank God you're here officer! He/they were trying to kill me. I want very much to cooperate with you fully, but I'm really shook up and I would like to speak to my attorney first. Also, I am unsure if I am hurt or not. Could you please call an ambulance for me?"

I might give the briefest summary possible of the situation as I perceived it to the officer (ie the individual who assaulted me came out of the dark and pointed a pistol at me and told me I was going to die).

Then I would sit back, keep my mouth shut, be pleasant as possible and await legal instruction from my attorney.

Critiques?
 
I suspect being cooperative and friendly toward the responding officers will go a long way. I don't mean spilling your guts, just that responding to their routine questions with "I won't speak without my attorney" makes it sound as though you have something to hide.

The police do have a job to do, but most of them are good people. Having the cops on your side of the argument when the case is presented to the grand jury could be the difference between going home and going to trial. If the officers tell the GJ that you were shaken up, but completely honest and cooperative, it will probably go a long way.

Remember, regardless of facts you are still dealing with human interpretation and judgement. The police must piece together the incident with your statement, that of other witness' and the hard evidence. Unless the actions were clearly captured on a surveillance camera, it will be up to the investigators and your demeanor will factor in heavily.
 
I normally suggest fully cooperating with law enforcement. But in this case, I'll make an exception. Just because you think your use of a firearm was justified doesn't mean that the police and local DA are going to agree and any comments you make can come back to haunt you. My suggestion is to identify yourself and then decline to answer any questions until you've spoken to an attorney.
 
Correction - you had these rights until about 24 hours ago when the law changed.
Click to expand...
Really? In which county did the law change 24 hours ago?

My country is the Untied States, and the rights listed above are codified in the Bill of Rights, specifically Amendments 5 and 6 of the Constitution. These rights are not given by the government and can not be changed by a simple vote of Congress or a presidential signature.

If you are referring to the new detention and prosecution of suspected terrorists law signed yesterday, I think that is covered by the Amendment 5 clause:

“…except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger…”

The Supreme Court has found since at least the Civil War that this clause applies to US and enemy forces. Which is why the Federal Government could hold without due process people agitating for a split in the Union during the Civil war, and German citizens caught entering the country illegally with false papers could be tried my military commission during WW II.

I’m not saying the law signed yesterday is a good idea, or that it will not be abused by applying it to a civilian self defense situation that has nothing to do with “actual service in time of war or public danger…” I’m just saying our rights did not change 24 hours ago.
 
psycho said:
Umm...how can you exercise your right to silence when you keep saying things like 'stop' rather than 'kill' and identify yourself as a citizen who defended himself?
Click to expand...

My post was in a timeline.
I referred to identifying yourself as the armed self defense shooter whilst on the phone with 911, apologies are due if that wasn't clear.
I referred to using words like 'stop' rather than 'kill' in the resultant court case, apologies are due if that wasn't clear.

But as usual someone chose to decide for me what I meant. Oh well.
 
Tuner pretty much summed it up. However, it is important to get the responding cops on your side - their reports will be used in the coming civil suit.

Biker
 
Medula Oblongata,

If you are involved in an on-duty shooting, are you pressed to immediately make a statement or is there a period of time you are allowed to get it together before you are required to make that statement? If you are represented by a union, does your union provide an attorney for you to consult before you make a statement? Thanks.
 
I have a little speach I've rehearsed for just such an occasion.


Officer, my name is [my name], here is my license (hand over CHL).
I was afraid for my life so I fired [maybe a brief description of what happened ... but this is the point that you can really screw yourself so be careful].
I'm a little shaken up right now and intend to cooperate fully with your investigation, however I have nothing more to say until I talk to my lawyer and get a chance to calm down.
What do you want me to do now?


However, it is important to get the responding cops on your side - their reports will be used in the coming civil suit.
Click to expand...
I always hear that, but what percentage of self defense shootings actually end up in civil court?

Glib cynicism is fun and all, but is it particularly useful here?
 
Best Solution

Since I live in Florida, the Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground rules here apply.

In my case, I just need to:

  • Call 911 as soon as possible - before shots are fired, if the connection can be made.
  • Stay on the phone to 911 until LEOs arrive, passing information as things develop; events are then on tape as the happened, not just in my memory.
  • Indicate threat as it evolves - both what you are seeing and how you are feeling threatened
  • DO NOT LEAVE UNTIL LEOs ARRIVE; work thru 911 operator to transition to their control
  • Stay calm and focused
  • Repeat the phrase - Stopping a threat
 
Zundfolge...

My comments were based on experience. I was being neither glib nor a cynic.
How useful you find my post is subjective, I suppose.
Just so ya know...

Biker
 
Most of the self defense shootings in this area I have read about and the one and only one I ever responded to resulted in:

1. Policeman takes posession of firearm used in shooting.
2. Policeman listens to survivor of encounter (shooter)
3. Policeman says "sounds like a good shoot to me, go on home we'll see ya at the station in the morning to get a statement"
 
Thanks for your responses to this thread.

I know we all hope this day never comes where we have to shot someone in self defense. My self, I wouldn't hesitate in any shape or form and that's how I train for this event if ever necessary. After the event is over seems to be where all the trouble begins. Thanks for your responses :)
 
There is a phenomenon that my buddy who is a CT State Trooper informed me of. It is called, "Felony Mouth." It is the condition in which a person who is detained or arrested talks himself into deeper and deeper trouble.

Be polite and respectful. I really liked the gist of what Zundfolge said. It is definitely imperative to emphasize that the measures you took were simply to stop the threat. And to be quite honest, that is all we really should seek to do. I'm not out to be certain that I kill my attacker. As long as they are unable to continue with the attack and I am able to make it home... I'm cool with that outcome.

It seems kind of corny to be quoting a fantasy novel, but there was a memorable line in The Lord Of The Rings in which Gandalf stated, "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends."

In the moment of the violence, I couldn't care less what social dynamics set the assault on me and my loved ones in motion - and I will do what is necessary to end the threat; but I would not be able to live with my conscience if I didn't extend mercy when safely possible.
 
Mercy

David wrote:

<In the moment of the violence, I couldn't care less what social dynamics set the assault on me and my loved ones in motion - and I will do what is necessary to end the threat; but I would not be able to live with my conscience if I didn't extend mercy when safely possible.<
************

Amen.
 
Correction - you had these rights until about 24 hours ago when the law changed.
Click to expand...

As stated above, not without a huge uproar from the populace...

In anycase, I think I am more afraid of messing up with the police than I am with a BG. :barf: If you vomit all over an officer's cruiser, does that convey your current state of mind?

Im not a LEO but have done a lot of volunteer work as an auxillary. After thousands of hours of time on the street I think the best thing to do is just to shut your mouth and wait for a lawyer, and at the same time I value highly integrity and uprightness and would want to cooperate right then and there because if I use my weapon, it will be justified. But then, the stress of the moment makes me think I need to relax first.

The responding LEO is going to know this much:

There is a dead guy
You shot him with your gun

It seems your going to have to say something: ID'ing yourself, agreeing that you did shoot him, and if justifiable you invoke part one of the golden rule of self-defense: "I was in fear of my life and at the very least that this guy was going to cause me serious bodily harm" (that should be a given and honesty at these points are necessary).

Perhaps an LEO can critique that.
 
David wrote:

<In the moment of the violence, I couldn't care less what social dynamics set the assault on me and my loved ones in motion - and I will do what is necessary to end the threat; but I would not be able to live with my conscience if I didn't extend mercy when safely possible.<
************

Amen.
Click to expand...

I'll third that Amen.
 
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