Sorry to be the bad seed here..But I agree with the OP. My primary HD weapons are a shotgun and a pistol caliber carbine. If they can't stop the threat, they will get me to my (multiple) high-capacity rifles. Short of an attack by a platoon sized group of BGs, I don't expect I'd need any of the rifles. Although I keep them ready "just in case".
What good is a rifle for SHTF?
- Thread starter WolfMansDad
- Start date
- Status
Roadwild17
Member
Argue all you want, I will have a rifle when that time comes. (I will have all 3 types of guns, the the rifle will be my primary.)
As far as a team goes, you would be suprised how many people are willing to team up in an emergency. After Katrina our entire subdivision (different races, walks of life, etc...) was banding togethere to keep the people who didnt belong there from coming in. Our local government failed to exhist, police were gone and those that were around were bussy holding off traffic on interstate. For my sub. there are two enterences, both of which had a "gaurd" there stoping anyone they didnt know and wathing to know what you were doing there. It took about 6 hours (of which there were multiple break ins) before everyone just banded togethere and stoped looters. We didnt go as far as shareing resouces or anything like that, but if it would have gotten bad enough we would have dont what needed to be done.
As far as a team goes, you would be suprised how many people are willing to team up in an emergency. After Katrina our entire subdivision (different races, walks of life, etc...) was banding togethere to keep the people who didnt belong there from coming in. Our local government failed to exhist, police were gone and those that were around were bussy holding off traffic on interstate. For my sub. there are two enterences, both of which had a "gaurd" there stoping anyone they didnt know and wathing to know what you were doing there. It took about 6 hours (of which there were multiple break ins) before everyone just banded togethere and stoped looters. We didnt go as far as shareing resouces or anything like that, but if it would have gotten bad enough we would have dont what needed to be done.
Distance and precision
Effective, precise range for most firepower:
shotguns (buckshot) = 35 yards
shotguns (slugs) = 150 yards
pistols (autoload) = 75 yards
pistols (bolt) = 500 yards
rifles = 1,000+ yards
There are exceptions, but as a rule these distances are fairly accurate. What is more important is where one lives, on a farm, in a town, a city, a brick house, an apartment or a condominium, etc. This factor greatly determines what one should or for that matter can use for a SHTF situation. How close do you intend to allow a "factually identified (known) threat" to approach? My uncles, who are all farmers, have fields that meassure 5/8 of a mile by 3/4 of a mile. These wide-open bean fields are flat as planks. They need all three types of firearms. My longest field of view is not more than 200 yards.
My point is, people have to assess their own situation and plan accordingly. What is needed for protecting my family may be completely ineffective for someone else.
Doc2005
Effective, precise range for most firepower:
shotguns (buckshot) = 35 yards
shotguns (slugs) = 150 yards
pistols (autoload) = 75 yards
pistols (bolt) = 500 yards
rifles = 1,000+ yards
There are exceptions, but as a rule these distances are fairly accurate. What is more important is where one lives, on a farm, in a town, a city, a brick house, an apartment or a condominium, etc. This factor greatly determines what one should or for that matter can use for a SHTF situation. How close do you intend to allow a "factually identified (known) threat" to approach? My uncles, who are all farmers, have fields that meassure 5/8 of a mile by 3/4 of a mile. These wide-open bean fields are flat as planks. They need all three types of firearms. My longest field of view is not more than 200 yards.
My point is, people have to assess their own situation and plan accordingly. What is needed for protecting my family may be completely ineffective for someone else.
Doc2005
freedom and guns
member
If
anyone thinks rifles and pistols are equal they need a http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot16.htm booster shot.
anyone thinks rifles and pistols are equal they need a http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot16.htm booster shot.
22-rimfire
Member
If I have no need for concealment, a rifle is first choice outside the house. I would probably have a handgun backup with me. Inside, I lean toward a shotgun and handgun.
The range alone tilts the choice in favor of a rifle. Why do you think the military use rifles? Handguns are for people who would routinely not be called upon to shoot or are backups.
The range alone tilts the choice in favor of a rifle. Why do you think the military use rifles? Handguns are for people who would routinely not be called upon to shoot or are backups.
ctdonath
Member
Nobody here advocates that. Prepping for SHTF with only a gun makes one a looter.
'cuz someone has to play the role of the cantankerous old fart.
Methinks most SHTF gun discussions focus on you being on your own ground, as most of the related discussion cover having enough supplies that you won't be going anywhere else for a while.
Yes, if you're roaming around anonymously in a looter zone while visibly armed, you may become a target. Under-discussed Rule #1 for dealing with dangerous situations is don't be there - go home, stay with your tribe, only go out in competent-looking non-looter-like groups, get out of looting areas.
If you need to travel, definitely go armed. Have a handgun for instant response, and a rifle can be kept at hand less than obvious (wrapped in a blanket, in a "discreet rifle case", etc.). Consider something compact for such situations (say, collapsing-stock SBR AR-15) that can be kept under a coat or some such.
If situation means I walk home with a rifle (about a day's hike from work), then I'd do what I could to keep it - and me - low profile. So long as one keeps moving, and perhaps keeps movement to night, avoiding problems should be possible.
Your concern is legitimate. Pity there isn't always a perfect answer. Best guess: have both, use as you see fit given the particular situation.
Quite. We're not all in the same boat. If SHTF, I can usually be home in about a half hour. Walking would take a day. Usually there is some warning, if not there is usually a short period of confusion you can take advantage of to bug out to a suitable location.
My geographic situation now is a single-entrance housing development. Major SHTF may involve organizing the neighborhood, securing the point of entry, and arrange watch teams strolling about. Rifles would be preferred.
Your mileage may vary. Apartments may make long guns unwieldy; farms make anything else ineffective per distance.
Father Knows Best
Member
dfaugh said:
Or a rifle!
Father Knows Best
Member
Then why is it that whenever I see video on CNN or whatever of some place where the S has definitely HTF, it seems like you couldn't swing a dead cat in the street without hitting three or four guys toting AK's? No one appears to be shooting AT the guys with the AK's, and they don't appear to be particularly concerned about the possibility. The only visibly frightened people in all those images are the people withOUT rifles.
possum
Member
" a handgun is a means to a rifle"
What i mean by this is that I will use the handgun, or shoutgun until i can move to or secure and begin to use a long arm of some sort, ie. an ar, and ak,or sks even if that was all I had. You use it to get to the weapon of choice if need be if it ain't right around then you pick up the rifle and go to town. A rifle just makes things so much easier.
What i mean by this is that I will use the handgun, or shoutgun until i can move to or secure and begin to use a long arm of some sort, ie. an ar, and ak,or sks even if that was all I had. You use it to get to the weapon of choice if need be if it ain't right around then you pick up the rifle and go to town. A rifle just makes things so much easier.
blackhawk2000
member
I'm going to make a statement here that will probably send some flaming my way: Anything a handgun, or shotgun can do a rifle can do better....except for be concealed. The handgun has that advantage, although a folding/collapsible stock rifle is no slouch in that dept. But quite frankly in a Katrina situation, I don't care about hiding the rifle. In fact I think I would prefer it to be seen. This shows that I am not to be messed with, much like poisonous animals in the wild wear bright colors.
They hold more ammo.
They reload as quick or quicker.
They penetrate body armor.
They defend against a take away as easy or easier.
They are more accurate.
Etc...
They hold more ammo.
They reload as quick or quicker.
They penetrate body armor.
They defend against a take away as easy or easier.
They are more accurate.
Etc...
_N4Z_
Member
Damn fine shtf shootin with a pistol @ 500 yards!
I wanna play along with this!
For me I think it wud be more like...
shotgun (buck) 30yard range
shotgun (slug) to 100, and for shtf no further required
pistol, semi - 25 yards, and thats a stretch for me.
pistol, bolt? N/A - don't have one.
revolver - good to 50 yards, iffy after that.
rifle - AK - deadly to 100, decent to 200, iffy past that. *but in shtf, likely not needed past 100.
rifle, lever - same as above.
rifle, bolt - capability far past needed shtf ranges.
The semi rifle would be my top pick for needed range, power, and capacity.
All of the above called ranges drop for moving target(s), and/or targets returning fire.
Jack19
Member
If you have to ask the question, I doubt you'll ever understand. Remember th Korean shopkeepers who used rifles to keep rioting blacks away from their stores in LA in 92?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Oliver_Denny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Oliver_Denny
Terrierman
Member
What good is a rifle for SHTF?
It's good for shooting anything that needs shooting, and it's better at that than any other option. Some think they are good for showing (to people), and avoiding the shooting part. I disagree with that line of thought.
IMHO, the only thing a well chosen rifle is NOT good for is as a hideout gun. Which in a real SHTF is definitely a secondary consideration.
There are three men left on earth. And Uma Thurman. One guy has a shotgun and plenty of ammunition, another has a pistol and plenty of ammunition, one has a rifle and plenty of ammunition. Uma is waiting on the winner. Only one guy gets to be the father of the future human race. Who are you betting on?
It's good for shooting anything that needs shooting, and it's better at that than any other option. Some think they are good for showing (to people), and avoiding the shooting part. I disagree with that line of thought.
IMHO, the only thing a well chosen rifle is NOT good for is as a hideout gun. Which in a real SHTF is definitely a secondary consideration.
There are three men left on earth. And Uma Thurman. One guy has a shotgun and plenty of ammunition, another has a pistol and plenty of ammunition, one has a rifle and plenty of ammunition. Uma is waiting on the winner. Only one guy gets to be the father of the future human race. Who are you betting on?
Fosbery
Member
Is it right to have a rifle for SHTF?
Every person has the right to keep and bear whatever personal arms they wish in my opinion, just as they are free to keep and drive whatever car they wish, even if it's not a Volvo.
Is it practical to have a rifle for SHTF?
A rifle is just as effective as a shotgun or pistol for defending yourself inside your own home, but it dosn't have the limitations of range and ammunition capacity that these do. SHTF is a huge huge range of situations, from a little bit of flooding to a Mad-Max-esque nuclear holocaust. You might not need a rifle to defend yourself inside your house, but what if you need to go out to get food, water, fuel etc? What if you need to travel from one side of the country to the other? What if you need to fight of an invading army or other such occupying force? What if people with rifles are shooting up your house and you need to shoot back?
Every person has the right to keep and bear whatever personal arms they wish in my opinion, just as they are free to keep and drive whatever car they wish, even if it's not a Volvo.
Is it practical to have a rifle for SHTF?
A rifle is just as effective as a shotgun or pistol for defending yourself inside your own home, but it dosn't have the limitations of range and ammunition capacity that these do. SHTF is a huge huge range of situations, from a little bit of flooding to a Mad-Max-esque nuclear holocaust. You might not need a rifle to defend yourself inside your house, but what if you need to go out to get food, water, fuel etc? What if you need to travel from one side of the country to the other? What if you need to fight of an invading army or other such occupying force? What if people with rifles are shooting up your house and you need to shoot back?
ChristopherG
Member
See, that's where I think a lot of these SHTF threads go wrong--not near enough Uma Thurman.
Mmmmmmm. Uma.
Mmmmmmm. Uma.
gila_dog
Member
Keep a handgun on you, stashed but quick to get to. Keep a rifle stashed in the car, the camper, the house, etc. where you can grab it and some extra ammo quick. To show them to people depends on the situation. If the cops are out in force trying to control looters or hunt down individuals, don't be waving guns around and acting like a bad ass. That is the kind of people they are looking for and they will shoot you or kick your ass and enjoy telling their buddies about it over beers at happy hour. If the cops aren't around but the scumbags are, breifly let them see that you are armed, then take cover and pick your target(s). Don't run around in the open waving guns around and acting like a bad ass. You just make an easier target. If they know you are armed, and know how to operate, the odds are in your favor that they will just go away. If they don't, at least you are in your best possible position for a fight.
What kind of rifle? Depends. In a home/neighborhood defense situation a military type rifle (SKS, AR, Mini-14, etc.) would be a good choice as long as it's reliable and you can shoot it well, and you have plenty of good ammo. If you live out in the boondocks then going into quiet sniper mode would probably be more rewarding. Something with a lower rate of fire and a bit more range and knockdown power might be better. You may have to shoot deer, cows, and stray dogs at 250 yds + if you want to eat meat after the power has been off for a week. A bolt action .308 or 30-06 with a scope would kill deer, elk, cows, Ford truck engines, etc. nicely out to 300 yards.
All a shotgun is good for is shooting fast moving targets like birds and rabbits. And the ammo is very bulky. I doubt if you could stuff a box of 25 shells into the pockets of your jeans. Cops carry shotguns in their cars because they are devastating up close, but even buck shot doesn't penetrate walls and cars very well. They can blast bad guys in urban environments without as much concern for collateral damage as they would have with rifles.
What kind of rifle? Depends. In a home/neighborhood defense situation a military type rifle (SKS, AR, Mini-14, etc.) would be a good choice as long as it's reliable and you can shoot it well, and you have plenty of good ammo. If you live out in the boondocks then going into quiet sniper mode would probably be more rewarding. Something with a lower rate of fire and a bit more range and knockdown power might be better. You may have to shoot deer, cows, and stray dogs at 250 yds + if you want to eat meat after the power has been off for a week. A bolt action .308 or 30-06 with a scope would kill deer, elk, cows, Ford truck engines, etc. nicely out to 300 yards.
All a shotgun is good for is shooting fast moving targets like birds and rabbits. And the ammo is very bulky. I doubt if you could stuff a box of 25 shells into the pockets of your jeans. Cops carry shotguns in their cars because they are devastating up close, but even buck shot doesn't penetrate walls and cars very well. They can blast bad guys in urban environments without as much concern for collateral damage as they would have with rifles.
Fosbery
Member
You've also got body armour to worry about. Remember that video where a man shoots up a street outside a courthouse. A half a dozen cops with pistols, plus a bystander, also with a pistol, open up on him but he (with a rifle) guns them all down. Took a cop with an AR to take him out. If the S has HTF everybody who has some is going to be grabbing body armour and the bad guys are just as likely to have some as the good guys.
rangerruck
Member
ask any military , current or former, like me, or any swat guys, what they would rather come up against, a 9 mm, a shotgun blast, or a 762 russian, or 308 , while wearing body armor...
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Looks like the question has been answered adequately.
- Status
